Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Biden’s massive military aid package neglects the real strategic threat: China

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Contra, Apr 29, 2024.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,253
    2,171
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    I agree that’s a dumb argument, but it’s intellectually dishonest to depict that as a “conservative” thing. It’s a human thing. Humans are hypocrites. Humans have situational ethics. You and I can share frustration at the degree of resistance put up by some Republicans on what should be a no-brainer issue to defend Ukraine from Russian aggression. But I would also love to see more frustration from the left with how little this Administration has done and is doing given how much more it could be doing, completely within the scope of its authority and that the unenlightened Trump Republicans couldn’t resist in any meaningful way.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
  2. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

    17,727
    1,789
    1,718
    Apr 8, 2007
    There is indeed a lack of principled conservatives in the modern GOP. Most of them have been RINOed out, the few that are left are keeping their heads down. The party leadership clearly cares more about power than principles.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

    6,275
    2,400
    1,998
    Sep 16, 2018
  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,253
    2,171
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    I don’t think there’s been any evidence those are PLA soldiers infiltrating to conduct attacks here if and when China makes its move on Taiwan. And I’m not saying that to be tongue in cheek; I would not put such a move past the CCP. I think those are just more illegal immigrants whose motives are no more insidious than other illegal immigrants from other parts of the world. But I agree the sheer number from China is telling about the actual condition of the Chinese economy. If things were going as great in the PRC as they would have the world believe, then their people would not be fleeing in droves.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

    6,275
    2,400
    1,998
    Sep 16, 2018
    Yeah I was referring more to the vast numbers. However, it would be the most China long-game move ever to stand up dozens of regiments in about 10 years.
     
  6. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

    21,673
    1,813
    1,763
    Apr 8, 2007
    That narrative is valid only if one assumes that NATO intends to launch offensive operations against Russia. NATO is a defensive alliance. It has not launched offensive operations once in its entire 70-year plus history. I would also add that prior to the Russian invasion NATO actually rejected Ukraine's request to join the alliance. Just to refresh your memory.
    The time that Ukraine tried to join NATO — and NATO said no

    Said it before, Putin's ultimate goal and he has made no secret of it is to reconstitute the Soviet Union/Czarist Russian Empire and that includes restoring Russian domination over a number of countries that became independent following the breakup of the Soviet Union. Interestingly, Finland was satisfied with a status of neutrality for many decades even though the country shared a 700-mile plus border with the Soviet Union. Following Putin's invasion of Ukraine Finland applied to join NATO possibly because Finland was part of the Czarist Russian Empire as was a good part of Poland.
    Putin’s dark designs: Restore the pre-1917 Russian empire
     
  7. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    9,001
    905
    2,843
    Apr 16, 2007
    I wouldn’t call 37,000 individuals “vast numbers”, the growth rate is exceptionally high starting from essentially zero 0.

    Could the Chinese be smuggling in a few spies this way? Maybe (actually a near certainty). But it’s not like that’s the only way or even a necessary means for them to cultivate spies considering the millions of Chinese living here and general accessibility of Visas. For context the Mariel boatlift was roughly 125k fleeing Cuba and that was against 1980’s population numbers. I suspect the vast majority of these Chinese are as against the CCP as the majority of those Cubans were against Castro. As the previous poster suggested, it’s probably more a function of deteriorating economic conditions inside China.

    This strikes me as more a phenomenon to monitor, rather than existential threat.
     
  8. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

    6,275
    2,400
    1,998
    Sep 16, 2018
    37,000 last year. 10x more than the previous year. I bet it is another 40-50k by end of this year. 100,000 isn't a small number. Maybe they actually are refugees. I hope so. They tend to be very hard workers. But what if they are not? How can we know if we don't make them go through a port of entry to claim asylum as the law indicates.
     
  9. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    9,253
    2,171
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    I think your retort is mostly true but not worth the effort it took to type it when you’re dealing with people who are determined to see Russia as a victim and justified in conquering its neighbors. I can tell you right now you’re going to get the response of “Aha! You say NATO is a defensive alliance, but what about its offensive campaigns against Serbia and Libya!” And admittedly those were both dumb operations that we never should have been involved in, did nothing to support our grand strategy, and fed the Russian and Chinese narratives. Also, you’re likely to see, “Aha! But this ‘defensive’ alliance keeps moving east into Russia’s sphere of influence. How is that not offensive?” Never mind it’s better to characterize the additions to NATO as them moving West, not the alliance moving East, primarily because of their historical fear of Russia, which Russia itself went and proved was valid.

    I prefer to put the matter thusly when confronted with Russia’s airing of grievances used to justify its conquest of smaller and weaker neighbors: their story was mildly interesting and worth discussing right up until they chose to settle the matter by force of arms. Now I would really like them to shut up and prove how “right” they are on the battlefield,
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2024