Proud of my university!

Yes, these "semantics" matter. There is a difference between one person's opinion and the university taking a specific stance.

I read the complaint for the Berkeley lawsuit, and it struck me more as complaining about students and faculty expressing anti-Zionist opinions than anything. Regardless of one's view on Zionism, suing to stop people from expressing opinions you don't like isn't something that is likely to capture my support. I'm also not big on the whole "safe environment" argument when the core of the complaint is about speech.

Certainly, Jewish students shouldn't be physically assaulted because of their membership in an ethnic group, religious beliefs, or political beliefs. I imagine we all can agree on that. When we start to venture into speech is where you lose me. As a Jewish person, I strongly object to the idea that we have a right to be free from discomfort. There are a lot of things I find uncomfortable that people have a right to say.

Finally, I disagree with your framing. As a person who was and is disgusted by Hamas and what they did, the vast majority of people who are protesting Israel's actions are not doing so because Israel merely declared war on Hamas. They are doing so because they believe Israel is inflicting collective punishment on innocent Palestinians. With many of them believing Israel is actively engaged in a genocide. (I don't believe they are engaged in genocide, personally.)

FWIW, I've met and talked with some of the student leaders from UF Students for Justice in Palestine. They're good kids who believe they are advocating for a righteous cause (the safety, security, and equal citizenship of the Palestinian people). I can't speak to every person in the organization, but the kids I met were not antisemites or violent or hateful people.

 

Like death to Israel or similar? Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

 

Freedom of speech is freedom from government-imposed consequences based on the message of your expression. Death to Israel is protected speech, regardless of whether you or I like it.

 

Ah, but when I say that, you play the "concerned parent card" ... its totally hypocritical and arbitrary. They have buses so people dont drive drunk, but people still do it, because we are dealing with adults who have freedom to make choices, not people living under their parents roof.

 

Good kids can be and are grossly misinformed on many topics. Such is the way of protestors. And I have no doubt many of them believe they are advocating for a righteous cause; they just are wrong on the facts and given history, ignorant to the potential of real solution. The vast majority of the kids protesting are grossly misinformed on the hyper-complex realities, as well as the history, of the Middle East.

To be clear, I’m not suggesting that people should not have their own views, I appreciate many of the arguments. (I do, regretfully, believe that Israel must eliminate Hamas. We are 7 months in after the kidnappings, and hostages remain. Last I checked, kidnapping, rape, torture and unprovoked murder of civilians remains a crime in every culture of every society. But this is a mere parenthetical to the issue of peaceful vs violent protests and the proactive, reasonable steps taken to alleviate the violence). But whether they are good or bad or right or wrong is indifferent. They cannot assert themselves violently, or interfere with other people’s rights.

We can agree that people can think and say mean things to and about me. It’s their right. (Heck, these boards are emblematic of that). But when they interfere with the right to get to class, like jumping in my face, screaming obscenities, or threatening me, or taking similar hostile or threatening actions, that’s not ok.

Meanwhile, on the fwiw column, my son goes to school in school in NYC. He has seen first hand the violence there, and so I trust his word over someone else stating the opposite.

Additionally, while you may not have found merit in the UC Berkeley complaint (I did nit read that one), I recommend reading the complaints filed against the AP (not regarding students, but involving the “press’s” culpability), and
against Columbia, and against Harvard. Those suits (other than the AP lawsuit, which is a great read for context) directly address the safety of the students.

And for purposes of this thread, Sasse has implemented, in my opinion, a decisive but measured policy that both permits the peaceful protest while ensuring there is no escalation as has seen in the Ivy League, Emory, and other places.

 

I’m happy to have a discussion, but not with false equivalencies and fake outrage.

I’ll be clearer for you. I do not advocate that my children stay hidden under a shell. I want them to experience life, with its unforeseen hazards and unpredictability. But where there’s real forecasted danger at a school that I pay money, I want and expect that school to take reasonable steps to protect against foreseeable danger.

 

Marc Short, MTP, 4/28

“I think that leaders of our higher education institutions are so collectively cowards today. I think the University of Florida's been a unique exception in which they've allowed both free speech and protection to students. And I find it fascinating to see how many LGBT people are aligning with the Palestinian protests when in under rule of Hamas or most of the Muslim countries, they'd be sentenced to death and killed. And yet in Israel they have the same rights as every other citizen. Yet they're aligning with the Palestinian protesters on most of these campuses.”

Meet the Press - April 28, 2024

 

They might be the ones who are wrong. Alternatively, you might be the one who is wrong.

It really depends on how broadly you define "interfere" and how you are attempting to get to class. If you are attempting to "get to class" by walking right through the middle of the protest while shrouded in Israel's flag or shouting at people, I'm not going to say the protesters can't shout back or stand their ground.

I don't expect you're going to like my response to the complaint filed against the AP. I'll take a look when I have time, but I cannot imagine a valid lawsuit against the press for its "culpability" in this. That sounds a lot like that bullshit lawsuit the Louisiana cops filed against the BLM protest organizers that the Fifth Circus has refused to dismiss.

If you're referring to the sheets referenced in the articles in this thread, what Sasse has implemented are unconstitutional restrictions on speech. Justifying it on the ground of security is no more valid than all of the bullshit speech restrictions DeSantis has passed that he has tried to justify. People's willingness to sacrifice free speech for the illusion of security scares me.

 

I feel even more assured that I'm on the right side of this lol. When a key player in Trump's White House is on the other side of the protest debate, I am quite confident I'm on the side of civil liberties.

 

Yes, I do think the “no hate” thing is very important and maybe you should also. The fact is no student, or group of students, should ever be subject to any type of verbal or physical abuse from other groups. UF has had policies regarding what is (and what is not) allowed during these protests and kudos for them to be proactive and not letting these gatherings escalate to what we have seen on other college campuses.

And let’s be real. I am not Jewish but a lot of these protests seem to be a lot more about simply showing hatred against Jews than anything else.

 

lol are u fricken serious? Lord how are we gonna make it 10 more years ????

 

Yeah, I think the whole free speech thing is more important than the no hate thing. If you give government the power to crack down on hateful speech, you're also giving them the power to define what hateful speech is. Consider the danger in that.

I am Jewish. I disagree.

 

I'm dead serious. I value free speech. If you don't, that's a you problem.

 

If this is accurate, I will not give another dime to UF or its athletics program until the current leadership are gone:
Police arrest 9 pro-Palestine protestors on UF campus - The Independent Florida Alligator
An Instagram story posted by UF Divest Coalition shortly before the arrests claimed police were trying to arrest a protestor for using a chair.

 

so racist hate speech is okay too? is there a limit in your opinion?

 

Hate speech is protected speech, including racist speech. That's established law. Why do you think UF can't bar somebody like Richard Spencer from speaking?

Is there a limit? If you're asking for the legal limits, they're narrow. Some of them are true threats, inciting imminent lawless action, defamation (within some limits), obscenity, speech that forms an aspect of criminal conduct (like conspiracy to commit a crime), etc.

I'd actually be more protective of free speech than our current law is, but that's my personal opinion.

 

If “for using a chair” you mean spitting on a police officer then by all means withhold your support for the athletic program.

 

Free speech...

 

Columbia university is an iconic institution of higher learning. I would expect tourists to want to see it up close.

 

When rapists take to championing the right to rape, or shooters protest for the propriety of shooting innocent ppl down like fish in a bowl (bc their fillins got hurt) you better @#$%$n believe we'd shut that shit down in a NY minute.

Of course they don't. They ply their trade by ambush...

Meanwhile, these idiot terrorist cheerleaders are trying to champion a straight up terrorist group, for the very cause they seek to promote with their terrorism--to wit: extermination of the jews.

That you and so many cowardly learned admin types continuously seek to conflate blatant intimidation with freedom of speech merely demonstrates a malignant ignorance, not a noble enlightenment.