Alijah Martin Committed To Gators

Yes, it was Damian Lillard’s camp. He won MVP, I beleive.

 

So you do not have the knowledge to form an opinion on the topic, and thus defer to the coaching staff. That is more than reasonable

I have an opinion, and one that very well may prove wrong. I hope it does.

take care,
Brent

 

My concern is that by the end of December we find that the plan didn't work out due to not having a proven PG. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but we were told last year that Clayton would be a good PG. That didn't turn out to be true and thankfully we ended up with an all-conference player at that position.

Anyway, this is why coaches get paid big bucks. So far, Coach Golden has earned our trust. Let's see how it plays out.

 

Allow me to expound…

Alijah has been aggressive, attacking scoring guard his entire career. He has his head up, but it is usually at the rim. He can sometimes force his offense and become too single-minded in his scoring effort. On those occasions, it does disrupt offensive pacing.

He can put the ball on the floor and is excellent in the open court, but can struggle in traffic. He is an excellent finisher, but I have rarely seen him as a facilitator.
He can obviously make the “routine passes”, but his court vision is largely unknown - as he is usually on the receiving end of assists.

Speaking of, last season he averaged about an assist and half per game… a number matched by his turnover rate. Neither is a big number, so it is an unknown whether he attain a positive ratio in a primary role. Pullin had less turnovers last season, with the ball in his hands for far more time than Martin. And so, he’d need to keep that number down… as his responsibilities go up.

I am also concerned how the role might impact his strength- which is, of course, that aggressive scoring mindset.

His dribbling is fine, but when FAU faced defensive pressure… he was not one of the players called upon as a ball handler. I’d imagine most of his highlights would be either open floor, or a couple dribbles attacking the rim.

His situational awareness is an immeasurable quality… and one in which I presume you are asking of my opinion. And so, again reflecting my concern— he has never been tasked with the situations, timing and decisions presented to a pg.

I hope this gives a bit more depth to my opinion.

And just to reiterate… mine is only an opinion, and one formed from having watched Martin’s career. It is certainly possible Martin has the needed skills, but simply had a different assignment on a team that included Boyd, Gaffney, Greenlee and Forrest. I am thrilled by the addition… he is one of my all-time favorite players to watch.

i respect your lack of opinion and deference to the coaching staff. That is a wonderful approach- but would make for a boring message board. Lol!

take care!
Brent

 

Just to clarify my thoughts… I have no doubts he can play the 2. I think it’s the perfect role. But I agree with @rserina in that we are not going to have he and Clayton splitting time.
My reservations are with the role of lead guard.

 

Yes that is exactly my point. I trust the coaching staff. I’m not even saying you are wrong, I was just curious why you would level such an accusation. As a player, I’d be borderline offended by that comment, so I’m hesitant to throw that label around casually.

 

Thank you for this explanation. I think had this been said up front, I wouldn’t have had so many questions. I respect your opinion as well. All good Brent!

 

hopefully my subsequent post provided the depth of opinion you are seeking.
You continue to subscribe to me the notion that Martin is “not a good decision maker”. That is not what I said. The decisions made on a court vary by position. Condon makes very different decisions than Clayton.
Martin has made decisions as an attacking, scoring guard. . . a player primarily asked to find scoring opportunities. He has not been tasked with, nor shown the decision-making the comes with being a lead guard and facilitator.

i hope this clarifies my position.

 

It does clarify and I appreciate your response.

 

Great exchange with @akaGatorhoops on this topic, and I hope it serves as an example of two people having a spirited, but respectful discussion about a subject they are both passionate about. I think too often, we get into these conversations and we think we are in a fight or need to take sides. I am guilty of this as well.

That said, I think players can look completely different from team to team and coach to coach. I’ve been many different players to many different teams even though I am a natural PG. some teams chose to use me as a SF… and to good result. I didn’t really like it and felt out of place, but I can effectively do it if asked. That’s just part of being a complete basketball player. So… let’s hope that Martin can transition effectively into whatever role he’s assigned. He is a baller, so I’m very optimistic about his chances.

Great insight from Brent, and I’ll be watching to see if any of his concerns manifest on the court. I think we both agree that we are excited about the positive contributions that Martin will bring to the squad.

 

I have three questions…

1). are any of our guards capable of getting the ball to our bigs in an easy position to score, and not turning it over with bad entry passes. May seem easy to do but it isn’t.

2) can either of the main guards, Martin and Clayton, beat full court press defense on their own? We struggled with this mightily last year, even with Pullin.

3) can Martin handle the ball late in games without the mental errors /numerous turnovers we saw from Clayton during Pullin’s suspension to start the year?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts. Lol

 

Man, this thread is slowly making me hate Martin, Clayton, and point guards in general.

 

I'm no expert (though I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express recently).
Yes to #1 and #2 with Martin at the point. Clayton is a bit more loose with the ball.
Regarding #3, Martin had 8 games last year where he had zero turnovers.
For the season he had 55 Assists with 48 TO's, which doesn't seem great but at least isn't negative.
Clayton had 93 Assists with 80 TO's last season.
(By comparison, Zyon Pullin had an incredible 162 Assists with only 43 TO"s).
Luckily, Clayton shot his way out of trouble and Martin stole enough balls (1.6 game) to make up for his TO's.
By the way, Martin had the 2nd most minutes played (1042) on his team behind Johnell Davis.

Martin had 4 turnovers once and 3 TO's three times, but mostly 1 or 2 TO's per game.
Against the best competition:
Martin had 2 TO's while scoring 13 points against #4 Arizona in a double-OT win.
Martin had 1 TO while scoring 25 points against #12 Texas A&M in a win.
Martin had 0 TO's while scoring 13 points against #20 Illinois in a loss.
Martin had 0 TO's while scoring 6 points against #9 Northwestern in the Tourney in a loss.

 

There's not enough data points to predict that Aberdeen will take over PG and I believe CTFG told Martin that he will have the OPPURTUNITY to be PG, he capable, the job is his. If not, PG may be shared or DA may surprise me and he'll have the job and Martin will get his minutes elsewhere. I don't think that Martin will want the PG position if he didn't think he could handle it.

 

Thread will be 150 pages deep come October and we'll have convinced ourselves we're doomed!



I kid - it's been good discussion that I've enjoyed reading. If I had to bet - we have the backcourt we're going to have for next season. I think TFG is a good enough coach to adapt the offense effectively. I would love to see us add a long 3. 6'2" Martin, 6'3" Clayton (really?), and 6'4" Richard makes 3 of our starting 5 a bit laking in height/length.

 

Clayton's turnover rate is terrific. It's just that he struggled against full court pressure and half court traps. I think people just have the Vandy game stuck in their heads. As I keep saying, though, his assist rate, turnover rate, and usage rate were all better than Martin. That's why I am more confident he can make the leap.

But I also think FAU's system had a lot to do with the lack of Martin creating shots for others. IIRC, their motion offense creates a ton of space for straight line, dribble drives, so most of their ball action is attacking the rim. Lots of kick outs when help comes, but fewer assisted jump shots off those than more dribble drive action. Not anywhere near as many post entry passes or high ball screens. Again, maybe my memory is off, but if not, that would obviously limit assisted buckets.

Can Martin make the right reads and passes in our offense? I just have no clue. I am reasonably certain Clayton can, but if teams start blitzing ball screens or pressuring us 94 feet, he will have to prove that he is up to the challenge.

 

I admit I'm not familiar with Martin's game

is it a situation where Martin and Clayton can play together and fill a dual lead guard role, where one defensive stop the outlet goes to one guy, then the next time it goes to the other, and there is not a reliance on a prime handler every single time?

having Pullin really spoiled us, fwiw.