How ‘cherry-picking’ policies let one insurer win big in Florida’s insurance crisis

I’m seeing an advertised push for metal shingles that look like asphalt. Our association documents prohibit them. We just appointed a committee to look at changing those type of rules. Insurance companies as far as I’ve read like the metal shingles and roof to where you get a discount. They withstand a lot of wind before failing.

 

The building industry fought it but the insurance companies control it. They can say or do what they want. If the insurance company says no, I won’t cover that roof, you’re screwed.

 

No. I do think the metal roof (whether sheet metal or metal tile) should handle it better. Esp as shingle roofs seem to start getting peeled away with 100-110mph winds. I think that’s where tile roofs and metal roofs would be vastly superior. I know several people that had like a foot of water in their home because the shingle roof just totally failed. And that was “just”from 120mph, but 20” of rain and a failed roof will do that. They all replaced with metal. I just meant at some point once you get cat 5 and above it doesn’t matter. Especially for homes built to older codes.

Tile roof + modern code vs cat 4 seems to “survive” up to 140mph pretty well, but most likely it’s still going to be compromised and leaking and you’ll need a new roof after such a hit. Hard to have confidence in anything against stronger than 150mph. I’ve seen the metal-tile claim that, I’m just not sure I believe it. Not sure why it would be different from concrete tile, what matters is what happens underneath the tiles. Not claiming to be an expert, my only “expertise” is having to go through the re-roof 3 times now - all concrete tile.

 

I'm not sure metal roofs are the answer for everybody. Maybe coastal areas but not so much inland. Like I said I worked 4 hurricanes, 1 major tornado outbreak and a couple of minor tornadoes. I saw dozens of 3 tab shingle roofs blown off but can't recall seeing a single architectural shingle roof blown off. Good heavy weight Architectural shingles are going to handle close to twice the wind loads as standard 3 tabs at a much lower cost than a metal roof.

 

Did you tell him you were going with a metal roof? They have the biggest credits with regard to windstorm coverage? Replacing shingle with shingle won’t do much in regard to those credits.

 

If you look at photos of places like Mexico beach the houses that looked untouched all were metal roofs, standing seam with covered fasteners is the way to go.
Those house were built with the newer codes 2020 or so.
Many are rated for 140-150 and higher. Plus they last for decades.

 

There really isn't much of a difference. Also, the problem with that almost all the metal roofs are nailed over the shingles to save on the cost of removal, so for those who have architectural shingles they won't be able to put a metal roof on until all the old shingles are removed.
Another problem that's arising from this is when those who did install metal roofs over the shingles without proper inspection for water damage of the roof from the attic (which almost no roofer is doing since they're all salesmen) are running into huge repair cost when they sell or refinance their homes, since they now have to remove part or all the metal roof and shingles to replace the damaged decking. Same is happening to those who installed solar panels.

 

This has been making the rounds lately, somewhat related ...

FEMA says Lee County didn't follow rebuilding guidelines after Ian and allowed high risk properties that took severe damage to repair/rebuild without elevating the homes ... FEMA is considering stripping Lee County of its 25% insurance discount given to counties that comply with its rules.

It's started quite a fire storm. Didn't know this, but FEMA is already set to triple flood insurance rates in Florida over the next few years.

'PROOF': FEMA claims Lee County didn't comply; leaders reply with documents (fox4now.com)

 

Florida has been for sale to political cronies ever since Rick Scott took office.

 

How do you figure? This has been going on for the last 20 years. The major insurance companies were gone from Florida's homeowner market well before DeSantis was here. There is nothing new about Citizens overpopulation or take out companies here in Florida. The article is not well written and is misleading in many ways. .

 

Cherry picking is definitely new. The quality of the insurers is definitely reduced. Everything else is far worse as a matter of degree. There's no way you can credibly suggest that things have not changed in 20 years. But even if it were accurate that the insurance situation is similar, which is not, the risk environment has greatly increased. The whole point is that the status quo is unacceptable.

 

He might have done his best and insurance is going up everywhere, but man living though these price hikes is still painful.

 

Goes way back before him.

 

I wish I could find the article but can’t. Also not sure if it was correct.

It showed the companies that were in Florida, their premiums, and payouts. It pretty much said they got a big payday due to collecting a lot of money vs paying claims, then hauled butt.

 

Absolutely. Two points in response. First, the whole point of sound insurance practices is to build up reserves in years when there there are not substantial loss amounts. Citizens especially has big reserves right now. The question is what would happen if it was even one storm in the year, God forbid two.

Second, current leadership actually incentivized the practice of allowing investors to form a company and sign up Florida policies and take out far more of the surpluses in the early years than normally would be permitted. They basically did it to give individuals an incentive to come in and make a quick buck and then leave their companies undercapitalized.

Hopefully that all makes quick sense. But you are correct - insurers have been taking out excess money in various years. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to ensure homes in Florida with sound practices that serious insurers would follow that need to credibly obtain reinsurance, and that we are not tremendously vulnerable to any type of bad year, which we are projected to have.

 

I agree the rates have skyrocketed in the last 6 years for auto and homeowners. Many companies are showing a profit for auto last year but the couple years before that they were losing their shirts. After covid people started driving more and for some reason having more accidents. Cell phones play a big part of that. Add lawyers on TV 24 hours a day making sure every time there is an accident someone is hurt. Homeowners premiums are going up because home values and building cost have gone up along with roofing scams and reinsurance cost.
Insurance companies are not showing a appetite for adding auto or homes in Florida for the most part. They will cherry pick the very best risk but many risk are being rejected by underwriting. Agents have been in a struggle to find coverage many times no matter the premium.

 

Most of the big name brand insurance companies have been out of the home insurance business in Florida for many years. They started cutting down on insured homes and leaving Florida after Andrew. The few that stuck around then are now long gone. That is why you have all the start up companies no one outside of your agent has heard of.

 

The status quo is all we have. The problem is companies do not want to insure risk in Florida. They have better places to do business. It has gotten worse the last 20 years but it started heading this way after Andrew. The Governor can not do much as the companies will refuse to write and leave the state if he tries to limit rates or dictate what risk they insure. The companies that are writing are not hungry to add business here that is why Citizens have grown so large. Even Citizens is not a piece of cake to place business with. They have underwriting rules and do inspections just like the other companies. Believe me they are a pain to place business with at a low commision and no agent is going to write a policy with them if they have another company that will write it.

 

Agree with most of that except there are things state government can do - typed it out long ago on this board and not inclined to try to find again. But allowing state legislators to form a corp and cherry pick and allowing undercapitalized takeouts are definitely measures that make it worse. But what is most important is to at least start the process of changing our development patterns. And to be honest with the populace.

Leaders are not known for politically damaging candor. But you can't say there is nothing they can do if they don't do that and do other measures that make it worse.

 

Sorry there is a much larger discount on metal compared to Shingles.
When Reroofing any house regardless of the material you should remove the old shingles. I’ve done dozens of roofs over the years (myself) and to. or do that is totally stupid. Every single house I see getting a new roof has it tore off to the decking, not sure where you are seeing it not being done. They need to do an underlayment inspection before the final layer goes down (at least in my area) perhaps it’s not code where you are. A crap install doesn’t deserve a better rate IMHO as it’s far more likely to fail.