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An Undeniable Pattern…

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by okeechobee, Apr 13, 2024.

  1. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Afghanistan cluster…
    Ukraine going off the rails…
    Gaza - Israel …
    Now major war is a given between Israel and Iran.

    World going off the rails under his leadership. If you’re still in denial about this, give him four more years. We can still post here in Chinese if the PRC allows us.
     
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  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    This might be the first time in years that I agree with you. The world is going off the rails under Donald Trump's leadership. Trump is the one behind stopping military aid to Ukraine, not anyone else. Trump is exerting his leadership through a treasonous, cowardly Congress, and we are seeing the results.

    Actually, a major war between any country and Iran is probably a good thing, if that country can defeat Iran. Iran is behind 90+% of the violence in the middle east (including Gaza). And yes, Trump was too cowardly to do anything about Iran after Iran rained down missiles on U.S. Forward Operating Bases in Iraq, injuring numerous U.S. soldiers.
     
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  3. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    Obvious question: What would Trump have done to prevent it?
     
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  4. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Honestly, it’s such a dumb question on the face, as it assumes events would have happened equally under Trump.
     
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  5. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Such a liar. Blaming Ukraine on Biden when it’s trumps Republican friends in congress that won’t fund aid is laughably disingenuous AT BEST.
     
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  6. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    No, it asked a very simple question. Maybe he would have prevented it. So the question is ... how?
     
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  7. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator VIP Member

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    There is a growing alliance between Russia, China and Iran. If we don't help Ukraine, we're strengthening Russia and the rest of this alliance.
     
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  8. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator VIP Member

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    He would do whatever he thought would most excite his base. What he wouldn't do is listen to the advice of his military advisors.
     
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  9. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator VIP Member

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    No because this war wouldn't end with the defeat of Iran and probably wouldn't end anytime soon. Iran has their own super power allies and they could get pulled into it and that might be the worst possible scenario. I don't know what the best scenario is. I'm texting back and forth with my retired army brother, asking questions and waiting for answers. He was a colonel on the joint staff and has deep insight into what each party will do in response to the other.
     
  10. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Again, it's a question of false pretense. You assume Russia would have invaded Ukraine with Trump at the helm. You assume Hamas would have attacked Israel with Trump at the helm. Off the top of my head, here are major differences from 2017-2020 and 2021-2024:

    1. Trump was squeezing Iran tight, which made their proxies weak. Hamas was not in the lucrative position during Trump's term. Biden lifted the Iranian sanctions and they got a whole lot richer, hence their proxies flourished. Then 10/7 happened.

    2. Biden winning the election was the nail in the coffin for Ukraine. Putin knew what the next move was. Ukraine was not a threat with Trump in office. Therefore, Russia did not move on them.

    Asking how he would have "prevented it", when you have a 4 year sample size of him doing just that, is a dumb question. All of these players were there from 2017-2020. That's the point. Trump held the world together. It's falling apart under Biden. Go on and obfuscate what everybody else seems to know. A -23 approval rating on foreign policy:

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/issues
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2024
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  11. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    No I don't assume that at all.
     
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  12. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Sure. And if Biden were President instead of Trump in 2020 a million more Americans would be alive because no one would have died with Covid. There has been zero new viruses taking over the country under Biden because he hasn’t let a new one hit us. Only Donald was that incompetent. Biden would have stoped it all! Moronic post of yours.
     
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  13. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I see someone got hold of some good stuff today. Don’t smoke it all today.
     
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  14. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    To blame the world falling apart on any one person is fairly ludicrous, if we are being objective -which is obviously not the case here.

    There are easy cases to make that Trump's very existence has basically broken the western world order. For example, the current iteration of congress has been one of the least competent and least effective in our nation's history - largely because of Trump and he isn't even in office. Literally - the 118th congress has done less than any other congress in modern history - Capitol Hill stunner: 2023 led to fewest laws in decades

    I don't want to go into more depth, as it's obvious no one here has any desire to be close to objective - but to blame all of this on Joe Biden, of all people, is silly. There are a lot of world leaders contributing to the current cluster. Netanyahu for sure, Putin obviously, corrupt regimes in Iran and China, weakened NATO members in Germany and the UK, Turkey playing both sides of Ukraine war, etc. That and a lot of this was set in motion before Biden was even Vice President. You can go back to bad decisions the US has made for the last 25 years that have set all of this in motion.
     
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  15. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

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    Trump did not unfreeze Iranian financial assets prior to 10/7. That was the Biden administration's doing, whoever it is that calls the shots on these things. Iran spends their disposable income on violence. So, rolling back sanctions matters with respect to Iran.
     
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  16. GatorFanCF

    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    Biden dithered in 2021 - his first year in office by slow playing lethal aid to Ukraine. When Russian troops were massing on the border significant USA weapons and support might have made the decision to invade more problematic for Putin. As it is it didn't particularly go well or quickly for Russia. Weapons in the hands of Ukraine may have made a tremendous difference in Europe. But, of course: Trump!!!

    White House Delays Moving Military Assistance to Ukraine
     
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  17. gatorjo

    gatorjo GC Hall of Fame

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    Right - Trump listened to advisors and experts a lot.

    That's why he politicized all medical leadership on covid, for political gain; the base needed someone to hate (Fauci), even if it cost thousands of lives.


    But hey - great fact filled post. "Smokin' the good stuff." Witty. Your posts are just barely the smallest step above that guy who posts all the gifs and drive-by negs everyone.
     
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  18. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Same aid that Trump tried to use as an extortion tool? Same war that Trump said Putin was “a genius” to launch his invasion? Same guy whose nutbar cult followers in congress are feverishly trying to make sure Ukraine loses? Trump would have stopped all this? Shirley you can’t be serious.
     
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  19. GatorFanCF

    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    I am serious; and....
    Stop, please.
    Biden was POTUS at this time and slow played assistance. Not Reagan, Not Bush(es), not Trump. Stop the deflecting and own up to the fact that Biden could have put a ton of military hardware in the hands of of Ukraine...and chose not to do so for a long period of time.
     
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  20. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Im pretty sure the U.S. and some allies did put plenty of hardware in the hands of Ukraine, which is how Ukraine has held off the Russians.

    I think some of the available aid like more armored vehicles was slow played because the WH initially thought Russia would mostly roll right in, and that the “resistance” would be more like urban guerilla warfare rather than WW1 trench warfare. A reasonable assumption at the time.

    Once it became clear it was a real defense, Ukraine got a lot more from the U.S. than just the Javelins and supplies they got at the start. It’s a strange dichotomy with some right wingers wanting to criticize the lack of aid to Ukraine and others wanting to pull the plug on aid entirely, basically letting the Ukrainian defense run out of ammo. I think Biden slow played the F16’s for sure, but if Congress lets them run out of ammunition does that matter? I think the blame is squarely at the feet of those “people” playing politics with this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2024
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