Richard Dawkins Laments The Decline Of Christianity In England, Calls Himself "Culturally Christian"

Conversely--why do you reject the miraculous?

The evidence supports miracles.

Our understanding of the common (which renders the miraculous, miraculous)--requires the rejection of the miraculous--bc "...that shit just can't/doesn't happen."

...but when the evidence supports the miraculous... the science types immediately reject the evidence, in order to reject the miracle.

Would your 'faith' such as it may even qualify as such (for what faith is required to believe in the materially demonstrable?) survive exposure to an actual miracle?

Or would simply reckon your sensorial perception of the evidence (or the evidence itself) must be askew, bc.... well, that shit just cant/don't happen?

 

The only difference between Bible-believers and Bible-skeptics is that Bible-believers allow for a few more miracles.

 

I don't know how many more times I can say this, so just STOP throwing lies around - you are either maliciously making things up to try and fit your agenda or you're being fed falsehoods without knowing the truth.

There are only around 1,500 mosques in the UK in total. That would average around 1 per town or city in the UK. However, only around 200 of those are purpose-built, with the rest being converted houses or non-resi conversions. And for context, most believers of Islam are presently clustered in certain regions in the UK - for example, 64 of those mosques - nearly 5% - of them are in my town. Some places in the UK - particularly rural areas - have no exposure to the outside world and funnily enough it's where most of the racism comes from. I have taught countless children who are Muslim in the 2 decades+ I've lived here. It's not even an issue unless you try to make it one. Your attempts to build fear might work in the USA but they'll fall on deaf ears here because most people, thankfully, know the reality of what you're saying.

Sure, some of our closet racists over here would love to have others pushing the same agenda, but it's built on nothing close to a resemblance of reality.
There is no devastating change occurring. There are nearly 40 churches for every mosque in the UK by any measure.

As for Dawkins, again, please stop. He's a privately educated (Oundle School to the tune of £50,000 a year, then Oxford ) clot. I hate to break it to you and can spell it out less politely if you like, but his youth and his particular path through public school would have been more "white" than a swan's feathers. If want to get the measure of ANYTHING about Britain from a cultural/racial perspective, never ask anyone who was publicly educated before about 2000. Public education is a very, VERY different animal over here to the format you are familiar with. "Sheltered" from the real world doesn't begin to do it justice. I know why Dawkins is concerned about mosques and it's not for 'cultural reasons'.

Please let this stop now. In my extensive experience, Muslim children are usually FAR more likely to be on the end of negative/discriminatory behaviour than it being the other way around. This Britain-domination view is insulting and flat out untrue.

 

The Turks have done a good job of persecuting Christians the last few decades.
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it’s really not. It’s the same assumption you’d make about literally any other book that mentioned a supernatural event.

 

Bible skeptics aren’t reading the Bible hard enough to find more confounding things about Jesus than his rather sparse miracles.

 

Dawkins and his ilk are feeble parasites …

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/what-dawkins-and-the-new-atheists-wrought/

 

According to the Royal Geographical Society, London has the greatest number of mosques of any city outside of Turkey. It’s also interesting that the first mosque in the UK was built in Cardiff in 1860, and that the first Jewish synagogue was not until 19 years later. It surprises me that there was not a synagogue in the UK before 1879. There were only 300 synagogues today in the UK according to the RGS.

The first Christian Church was built by AD64. It only took a mere 33 years (or less) after the crucifixion for the gospel to spread from Jerusalem to Britain.

The first Buddhist temple wasn’t built until 1965, and the first Hindu temple 1981. The Sikhs beat out the Buddhists and Hindus, building their first gathering place in 1940.

https://www.rgs.org/schools/resources-for-schools/our-place-in-history/religious-buildings#:~:text=(see the Shah Jahan Mosque,section of the BBC website.

 

It's not really a surprise to me you responded to my questions the way you did, as it fits the evasive pattern you established in your former GC identity as Dreamliner. When DL did not like a question he danced around it like a boxer bouncing around the ring to avoid getting punched. DL frequently used evasive verbal tactics to avoid having to make a straighforward direct reply, just as you have done here. I wonder for the reasons you might have to avoid answering the questions.

You're not the only Christian on Too Hot I have asked these questions. They have been asked of approximately 10 fundamentalist and evangelical Christians over the last 15 or so years. I've received all sorts of responses ranging from "nothing would change because it's all true."

Along with a few "LoL" responses, and people asking what it would / will do to my own faith to find the miraculous events are true. A fair inquiry. It would have no significant change. I have no need to believe the the miracle stories are literally true as as my faith is based on what Jesus taught, not what is often erroneously taught, imo, about Jesus, or in his name. It would not alter how I strive to practice my faith in my dealings with others.

The question evidently makes people uncomfortable and only one person, a single person posting his reply on this forum had the courage to tackle the question and make an honest reply. The answer I received from former poster Plank was shocking, heartbreaking. Plank has not posted on this forum in a year or so and I don't recall if he was a regular when you posted as Dreamliner years back. In 2011 he too changed his GC identity from a previous one. You may or not recall him, or perhaps you may remember him from the username he had before he posted as 'Plank.' If he wants you to know I trust he will tell you.

Anyway, Plank replied it would destroy him and his faith if he were to discover the miraculous events he believed happened were not literally true. He would regard the Bible and the gospel as a lie and would have no reason to continue leading a virtuous life. He posted he would abandon Christianity and its moral principles and tenets to lead a life of dissolute self indulgence. This speaks to me of a selfish faith, one that only follows the selfless, loving and charitable teachings of Jesus because they are practices taught and established by the same gatekeeping ecclesiastical authority that determined the requirements of belief. - Virgin birth; a literal resurrection; walking on water; and others, some variously determined by denomination.

It disturbs me that those who evangelize or witness to "unsaved" prospects stress or prioritize the necessity to believe the things listed up thread to assure their admittance to heaven when they die. Jesus taught many things and that was not the primary teaching. He taught of unselfish love and selfless sacrifice. He associated with the pariahs of his time - tax collectors and prostitutes. There is contextual evidence he healed and saved from death the homosexual servant of a Roman centurion.

He did not teach or declare he was born of a virgin nor does the Bible explain what he meant by comparing the son of man spending three days 3 days and nights in the heart of the earth to Jonah's three days in the belly of a whale, something I regard as metaphorical to establish the veracity of his teachings.

Jesus is quoted as saying the greatest commandment was to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and to love others as you love yourself. No greater love has someone who will lay down his life for another. He instructed his followers to treat others as they themselves wish to be treated. A law of reciprocity that is found in all religious traditions around the world. The corollary being we will inevitably and eventually end up being a recipient of what we dish out. Karma is a bitch; we reap what we sow.

In a world filled with needy people suffering daily from their lack of basic necessities to sustain their lives, there are many, not enough, but many who charitably respond to alleviate the universal suffering. It is done out of compassion and sympathy for their plight. One does not need to be a Christian of any description to recognize the needs of those who suffer and respond with charity. A failure to charitably respond is not a Christian failure. It is a human failure.

 

What is the evidence that supports miracles?

Would my "'faith' such as it is even qualify as such survive exposure to a miracle?" I can think of no reason it would not. It's ingrained into who I am. The differences in faith between yours, Contra's, Plank's and mine is found in how we perceive and adhere to the essential message of Jesus. How we love and treat one another.

What of your faith - do you require miracles to believe the message taught by Jesus to establish the truth of what he said, or is the truth of what he taught found and underscored in the practice?

 

Acceptance? People pleasing? An interesting take, but not relevant or applicable from my standpoint. I found my faith exponentially increased and grew stronger when I realized it was not necessary for me to believe the improbable miracles. Most especially when I found the so called prophecy of the virgin conception of Jesus was based on a faulty interpretation of that verse in Isaiah. I speak out on this forum to counter what I view as misinformation. I am not invested in whether my views on Christianity make me popular or a pariah. They are what they are. They are mine.

 

That's an interesting question - I have an opinion and I'd love to know what those with strong faith feel about it.

I do believe Jesus was a historical figure of some notoriety.
I don't believe "God" is real. Indeed, Google tells me there are more than 100,000 potential iterations of God and over 10,000 faiths worldwide. They can't all be right, which, by my own humble admission (and slightly neurodivergent thinking) means the vast, vast majority must be wrong. Purely a numbers thing.
I don't see one religion as superior to any others because of this.
However, I accept, embrace and am fully tolerant of the fact that many do and use their faith to make the world a better place. I love that.
I also believe, sadly, that many use their faith to stir distrust and hatred of others, and seek power. I hate that because it's counter to any concept I would have of "God".

I do, however, live my life trying to a) better myself for the benefit of others b) am employed to deliver a role which greatly benefits people in society, protecting them from harm and educating them and c) never knowingly seek to hurt, harm or belittle anyone else.

In short, I believe I am a good person. My upbringing taught me to see the good in people and to try and do nice things for others. I am often told I am selfless to a fault but it's who I like being.
One day, I acknowledge I will pass on. My view is that - at that moment - my existence will simply end and that's ok. It's life.

*IF* however there is a God, a Heaven, an afterlife - and they judge I am NOT a good person because I didn't go to Church or sing hymns daily, I'd be pretty upset.
I'm humble enough to hold my hands up and say "sorry, I got it wrong" - would that exclude me from that afterlife do you think?
If it does, should it? Do I go to Hell instead?

I'd be intrigued to know how those who have a faith feel.

 

I read that twice. It's very eloquent, but I don't profess to fully understand it.

In short, yes or no. Would I go to Hell based on what I've written per your assessment?

 

Not Contra …… but my understanding is …… the answer to your “gotcha” question it is not something a human can know. However, the Bible is pretty clear on the matter of salvation and eternal life. You should read the Bible and decide for yourself if your life choices yield both.

 

But what do you believe?