Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Gator Country Black Friday special!

    Now's a great time to join or renew and get $20 off your annual VIP subscription! LIMITED QUANTITIES -- for details click here.

Richard Dawkins Laments The Decline Of Christianity In England, Calls Himself "Culturally Christian"

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Contra, Apr 4, 2024.

  1. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,934
    848
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    Two things can be true at once.

    1. Vices are bad (even with consent).
    2. Government shouldn’t be in the business of policing everything.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

    29,934
    1,867
    1,968
    Apr 19, 2007
    You are backtracking. Just admit you were wrong, there are churches and you don’t get killed for being religious.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  3. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    12,933
    1,730
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    This is evidence of the close mindedness of people and how they are forever stuck in the right / left good/ bad stereotypes. It isn’t illogical at all the a scientist and atheist would scold Islam as much or more than Christianity. The likes of you and Contra are surprised and amazed a that, and those mired to identity politics ideology are suddenly offended by Dawkins. If people actually used their brains there is nothing to be surprised about.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  4. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

    17,730
    1,789
    1,718
    Apr 8, 2007
    Like it did in the Dark Ages when all we had was faith and religion? An interesting side note to this discussion, the end of the Dark Ages was hugely helped by travelers to the Middle East bringing back the writings of the ancient Greeks and Romans that were preserved in Muslim countries after being lost to most of Europe.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

    14,406
    14,419
    3,363
    Jun 14, 2007

    Bullshit. You're hanging your hat on minor exceptions 1 of 3 assertions I made. OK, so SOME churches are permitted under SOME communist regimes.

    Commies still kill with impunity for practicing religions, and still, as always, overtly promote atheism. Funny how you always try to sugar coat communism as shit it simply ain't. Like successful, benevolent, tolerant...

    As you post freely, from the safety afforded by the greatest safeguard on the planet against communism.

    Bet you'd be singing a completely different tune if you ever dared subject yourself to the system you so proudly esplouse. I believe the term for that is...

    Hypocrisy.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  6. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,149
    1,196
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    How would you know that Genghis Khan wasn’t a Biblical character ? It’s not like you’re versed in the only reliable record we have of Jesus.
     
  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,149
    1,196
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Seems like all we had for 2020 was Dark Ages and faith.
     
  8. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    That literally has nothing to do with what is happening in China where simply distributing Bibles is illegal in most cases.
     
  9. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Wow.

    The Jesus of the Bible took a physical pounding that few humans could ever endure and one far harsher than the average punishment of the time.

    Flipping tables and chasing out the thieves from the temple too. Doubt a feminine character could chase droves of thieves away all by his lonesome.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

    14,406
    14,419
    3,363
    Jun 14, 2007
    What???

    Where the hell did I suggest it was anyhow illogical that he should scold Islam, let alone more than Christianity???

    Pretty sure I said he basically said what everyone (in civilized world) intuitively knows.

    He basically tipped his hat to Christianity at least in so far as apparently recognizing that if he'd run Allah n Mohammy down in Mohammistan the way he's run God n Jesus down in Christendom, he'd long ago been spayed, frayed and fileted.

    That's recognizing the obvious, not 'illogical' or surprising or amazing.
     
  11. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

    29,934
    1,867
    1,968
    Apr 19, 2007
    A lot to unpack here but it’s mostly just your own preconceptions of femininity at work here
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  12. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

    1,362
    346
    178
    May 15, 2023
    Agreed. People who don't believe in oxygen can still breathe. And people who don't believe in gravity can still walk on the ground.
     
  13. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 GC Hall of Fame

    6,707
    1,374
    3,103
    Oct 11, 2011
    Wow indeed.
     
  14. Emmitto

    Emmitto VIP Member

    9,088
    1,724
    933
    Apr 3, 2007
    Why not? A woman can’t flip a table? Chase thieves? Take physical abuse?

    Even “chasing away” is quite circumstantial. I mean good luck “chasing” me off, especially if my revenue relied on being a thief. That dude in the pics might flip the table, after that it would go downhill for him.

    Perhaps these are, oh, ideas, more than reports, live from the scene?
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  15. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    8,864
    870
    2,843
    Apr 16, 2007
    When the content of the Bible was written and compiled by men, those very same men had no clue of either Oxygen or Gravity. Those were still distant concepts. So indeed it might seem even to the “learned” and literary men of the era that each breath was some inexplicable miracle.

    Both Oxygen and Gravity were “discovered” in the Age of Enlightenment (17th and 18th centuries, respectively). I’m sure most have heard the tale of the Apple falling on Newton’s head. Eureka! I had to look up the “discovery” of Oxygen, but was not surprised to learn it was in this same general period of scientific discovery. Men don’t need to “believe” in Oxygen or Gravity. These things can be demonstrated easily. The existence of supernatural beings? Eh.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,149
    1,196
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,149
    1,196
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Funny how the hard-bitten skeptic in our “enlightened” time say they’d require something akin to a miracle to believe, ex: Jesus walking in the room and healing his cancer, while the Gospels indicate that people who didn’t know gravity saw Jesus walk on water and still didn’t believe. Modernists are more credulous than their ancient counterparts!
     
  18. lacuna

    lacuna VIP Member

    63,350
    3,727
    2,353
    Apr 8, 2007
    Redlands, Colorado
    Presuming you do, why do you believe the historical veracity of this particular walk on water miracle? Or any of the miracles described in the Bible? Would your faith be shaken or changed if you discovered if any of the miraculous events described in the Bible were metaphorical?
     
  19. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

    1,362
    346
    178
    May 15, 2023
    Immanuel Kant would disagree with your analysis here. He would place the relationship between God and fundamental morality in the same category as the relationship between gravity and walking on the ground. He would say the existence of one is the precondition for the other existing.

    The logical syllogism that you would use to argue for the existence of gravity (look at its universal obvious undeniable impact on reality as we know it) is identical to the logical syllogism that could equally argue for theism (due to the universally recognized obvious fundamental moral principles).
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

    1,362
    346
    178
    May 15, 2023
    I would not call Dawkins a hero. I think there is an obvious cognitive dissonance with him. I think you described it well. He has fought hard to undermine the epistemological foundations of the religion that produced the aspects of England's culture that he now laments are vanishing and going away. The conversation at the beginning of the podcast where they discuss the plummeting church attendance in England coupled with the thousands of mosques that are being built in England is a reflection of where the country is going. Christianity and its culture are dissipating. This creates a vacuum, and something is goin to fill that vacuum.

    My reaction to that is I laugh, not necessarily in a “I’m better than you” kind of way, but he’s bit the hand that feeds him so to speak. He chides Bible-believing Christians for believing nonsense, while lamenting the cultural effects of departing from what he calls nonsense. Richard Dawkins has chosen his course and path. And everyone who followed him in England also chose their course and their path. They will reap what they have sown lest they come to their senses and chart a new course.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2024
    • Like Like x 2