Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Netabyahu has Israel looking like nazi Germany..

Dehumanize

Gemocide

 

Another "oops"

 

It's quite interesting when Israel makes a huge mistake and kills innocent people they immediately apologize and say they will investigate what happened while Hamas kills innocent people and they celebrate in the streets. That's the difference between a country defending itself and terrorists.

 

The anti-Semitic progressive mind will never grasp that difference. It requires objectivity, honesty, and some logic ….. something extremely rare in the American left.

 

MAGA patriot: never trust the government, assume the opposite.

Also MAGA Patriot. Guyz, please wait for the government report to come out after the Israeli government investigates itself.

 

I think Israel has killed quite a few thousand innocents, including women and children, with zero investigation. Their body count is multiples of the original attack.

They sort of have to investigate this one due to western outrage. What are they going to say? Considering the chefs say that they were coordinating with the IDF *and* the van was marked, the explanation for how it was targeted will be… interesting. I expect some bs like “we were tracking a similar van that definitely had terrorists in it and our signals got crossed”. But in reality either their military process for striking targets is completely f’ed, or somebody did this on purpose. Either way, when you “oopsies” like this it’s impossible to have faith in anything they are doing, not that there already wasn’t ample question about that.

 

I mean, they shot a missile directly through the logo on top of the van, and they were struck with multiple shots. They've claimed on the one hand it was an accident and on the other that there was some "Hamas" guy traveling with the convoy that they were targeting that mysteriously wasnt there and got away.

 

Kind of like when that tank gunner shot at a group of journalists right in front of him. Totally obvious murder even if they weren’t journalists. I’m sure any honest “investigation” would conclude that. Yet, not aware of anyone being accountable on the Israeli side for killing those journalists (or really any accountability). Military accountability is even worse than police accountability.

Obviously it’s much harder to blame a pilot or drone operator because there is likely a process. It very likely isn’t the fault of the guy who pulled the trigger. But obviously somebody either f’ed up big time or it was intentionally ordered by a rogue person. Yet, even if it was intentional targeting we will never hear about it. It’ll just be the vague “we’ll work on our processes and do better next time”.

 

Hope our personnel will be safe as they build that dock. Then again, the USS Liberty was fired upon by our close ally.

 

Its sweet that you think the dock is actually going to be built. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I assumed that was purely to placate worried Americans who arent going to follow up on it.

 

Again, this whole issue wouldn't be an issue at all if maybe the Terrorists didn't attack unprovoked Israel with a "Pearl Harbor" type attack that killed 1,200+ and the Terrorists still have hostages and won't surrender. Maybe you and all the other Israel haters should be screaming from the rooftops for the terrorists to release the hostages and then lay down their arms and surrender. But it's weird, I haven't heard that from you and the others bashing Israel.


Ok, so do you hold the US to the same thing? Because we killed 10 innocent civilians in Afghanistan a while back. So was the US's explanation BS also? I assume you have zero faith in anything the US is doing since we have done the same thing...

Newly Declassified Video Shows U.S. Killing of 10 Civilians in Drone Strike (Published 2022).

 

Of course Hamas should return the hostages.

A) In the real world they aren’t just going to do that.

B) Israel’s actions actually endanger the hostages. This is more about revenge, and Netenyahu’s politics at this point.

C) What does this have to do with Israel blowing up aid workers, who very much are NOT Hamas?

You seem to keep wanting to lump the workers in with Hamas as some sort of justification. That’s gross man.

 

Yap, as I've been saying for a long time now, Israel and the IDF are creating the next generation of ISIS who will have to put in a quarter of the effort to recruit and obtain funding. In other words, even if the IDF wipes out 95% of Hamas fighters, it's just a matter of time before the latest iteration of "Hamas" or "ISIS" comes back at them 4x as strong as they were before. It turns out a genocide doesn't win over hearts and minds. Especially, when you have no intent to go in and help the Palestinians rebuild from the wreckage and destruction of their land.

Cease fire yesterday. Negotiate very strict boundaries with teeth and free all hostages on both sides. Stop the mass murdering of civilians. It will NOT make the region a safer place. Not for Israel, not for anyone.

 

Where did i lump the workers in with Hamas? Don't lie. Not a good look. Oh, so in the real world Israel is defending itself from terrorists. Some innocents will die. That sucks but it's on Hamas, not Israel for starting this. Similar to when we bombed the Japanese. We got attacked and defended ourselves.

 

Some info for the board that might help this conversation.

First off, this is a coalition government. It's not Bibi's government. If Bibi were removed tomorrow, Benny Gantz would be doing the exact same thing. That should not be surprising since Gantz is part of the coalition government that makes up the War Cabinet. The idea that you get rid of Bibi and the war somehow ends or changes dramatically is not realistic.

Second, the Israeli's are going above and beyond to avoid civilian casualties. This is extremely difficult in an urban warfare setting. Don't my word for it, this is the expert's opinion from West Point's Modern Warfare Institute:

In their criticism, Israel's opponents are erasing a remarkable, historic new standard Israel has set. In my long career studying and advising on urban warfare for the U.S. military, I've never known an army to take such measures to attend to the enemy's civilian population, especially while simultaneously combating the enemy in the very same buildings. In fact, by my analysis, Israel has implemented more precautions to prevent civilian harm than any military in history—above and beyond what international law requires and more than the U.S. did in its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The international community, and increasingly the United States, barely acknowledges these measures while repeatedly excoriating the IDF for not doing enough to protect civilians—even as it confronts a ruthless terror organization holding its citizens hostage. Instead, the U.S. and its allies should be studying how they can apply the IDF's tactics for protecting civilians, despite the fact that these militaries would almost certainly be extremely reluctant to employ these techniques because of how it would disadvantage them in any fight with an urban terrorist army like Hamas.

Israel Has Created a New Standard for Urban Warfare. No One Will Admit It

If you want to learn more about how the Israel Jag Corps (MAGs) have a bigger role in approving or diapproving operations with the IDF than in the US military, listen to this podcast starting at the 13:00 minute mark.

https://thedispatch.com/podcast/advisoryopinions/federal-judges-examine-the-israel-hamas-war/

Third, the Fog of War is real. Mistakes happen. It happens with the US, it happens with NATO allies, and it happens with Israel. During the battle of Al Nasiriyah in Iraq in '03, a Marine Corps Forward Air Controller with 1st Bn 2nd Marines mistakenly called in an air strike with A-10's on his own unit. The A-10 didn't recognize Marine AAV's and thought they were Iraqi mechanized vehicles. When mistakes happen, the most important thing is to admit it, take responsibility for it, and apologize. That is what Israel has done.

Let me know when Hamas starts apologizing for killing civilians.

 

I mean, that is an opinion, but the fact is >95% of the deaths are civilians. It doesn't really matter how hard Israel are "trying" to avoid civilians casualties. The rate at which they are occurring is terrifying and will inevitably only lead to already deep-seated harboring of ill-will among young Palestinians who will have had years to ruminate on what's happened in Gaza the last 6 months. Which leads to even larger problems for Israel down the road. So not only are Israel killing a LOT of civilians, they are guaranteeing themselves more problems in the future. I think Israel have already killed something like 5x the amount of civilians in Gaza in 6 months than Russia have killed in Ukraine in 2 years. "Trying" isn't going to matter to future Palestinian generations.

 

It is actually not an opinion. If you actually read the article, it states that as close as we can tell there is a 1 to 1.5 militant killed to civilian killed. That is way, way better than most militaries do. And it disproves the idea that "95% of the deaths are civilians."

Of course, the true number of Gaza civilian deaths is unknown. The current Hamas-supplied estimate of over 31,000 does not acknowledge a single combatant death (nor any deaths due to the misfiring of its own rockets or other friendly fire). The IDF estimates it has killed about 13,000 Hamas operatives, a number I believe credible partly because I believe the armed forces of a democratic American ally over a terrorist regime, but also because of the size of Hamas fighters assigned to areas that were cleared and having observed the weapons used, the state of Hamas' tunnels and other aspects of the combat.

That would mean some 18,000 civilians have died in Gaza, a ratio of roughly 1 combatant to 1.5 civilians. Given Hamas' likely inflation of the death count, the real figure could be closer to 1 to 1. Either way, the number would be historically low for modern urban warfare.

The UN, EU and other sources estimate that civilians usually account for 80 percent to 90 percent of casualties, or a 1:9 ratio, in modern war (though this does mix all types of wars). In the 2016-2017 Battle of Mosul, a battle supervised by the U.S. that used the world's most powerful airpower resources, some 10,000 civilians were killed compared to roughly 4,000 ISIS terrorists.

But all available evidence shows that Israel has followed the laws of war, legal obligations, best practices in civilian harm mitigation and still found a way to reduce civilian casualties to historically low levels.

To believe this, you would have to believe that Israel has killed between 50k to 70k civilians. Not even Hamas is claiming that. Their number, if it is to even be given credibility, is 30k.

 

They are only 'apologizing' to gullible Americans & Westerners for TV so they can keep their weapons and aid coming, they aren't ringing up the families of the civilians they've killed now, are they? They probably cant anyways since they've wiped them out.

 

Oh, did they collect their Hamas dog tags and membership cards? Or are they just counting any boy/man age 14-60 as a Hamas 'fighter?'

 

If you actually interested in the where the numbers came from, listen to this podcast and a member of the Israel War Cabinet breaks it down:

‎Call Me Back - with Dan Senor: War Cabinet Member, Ron Dermer on Apple Podcasts

Let me know where you disagree with his numbers.