Is the Republican Party Basically Now a Crime Organization ?

In my first post on this thread I should have written that the documents Trump took to Mar-a-Lago were personal records (I said presidential records). The president has the authority to determine whether a doc is a presidential document that has to be preserved or whether a doc is a personal doc that he can take with him without preserving it with the National Archives.

The president has the authority (while president) to determine if a document is a presidential or personal record. That decision is no reviewable.

President Clinton had tapes in his sock drawer that had (evidently) been classified. The mere presence of these tapes in a sock drawer meant that Clinton had decided while president the tapes were personal, not presidential records, and per the Presidential Records Act, that decision was not reviewable. This was a court case and the judge ruled in Clinton's favor, as I understand it.

Robert Barnes (paraphrasing): There is no criminal remedy in the PRA, so how can Trump be criminally prosecuted?

Barnes (who you called "an idiot") explains beginning at 3:00

 

Since MAGA has taken over the GOP, it is now an arm of Putin's international mob.

You heard Trump the other day--If you aren't MAGA, the GOP doesn't want you. Watch what they do with the RNC organization. It will all be criminal activity.

 

I would love to see this backfire on the Orange Moron by having a significant portion of the Pub party finally wake up and splinter off from the Pub party. A 50% Pub, 50% MAGA split would effectively end the Republican party. Heck even a 30/70 split would.

 

Appreciate your respectful argument. I think the ultimate question is who decides what is criminal? This clearly must be stipulated in the constitution. Is spreading disinformation regarding J6 a crime? And if so, who decides what is or is not disinformation?

I am with you that the party is definitely on some shaky ethical ground with their protections of the president and framing of J6. However, I would say that such ethical issues should probably be dealt with by the voters, who dishearteningly seem to support the Republican actions on this.

 

Certainly they operate like a private corporation with only their own interests in sight, rather than those of the country. And they most definitely would do everything in their power NOT to investigate potential crimes by the president. None of this is what I want in a political party, but it also doesn’t seem illegal or even all that different than how the Democrats would operate in a similar situation.

I think what would make it illegal for me is something like destroying evidence or interfering with an official proceeding, but admittedly I am not a lawyer.

 

Spreading lies is itself not a crime. Free speech includes the telling of lies.

Occasionally the lies seem so incredulous that they ought to be criminal. Not sure how you make that leap though. If you are spreading lies for $$$ that can occasionally be construed as fraud, when the lie is directly connected to “takings”. Sometimes this can be criminal (often it’s handled in civil court). Defamation is another type of lie handled in civil court, not sure it could be criminal. Maybe if the lies are coordinated or designed to undermine a prosecution it could be considered aiding and abetting or part of a conspiracy to obstruct justice. But that would only be those doing the coordinating, and you’d need to prove they knew they were lying (something actually shown with some of the Trump circus around the 1/6 conspiracy).

 

The GOP 2024 is the final season of Game of Thrones we wish we got. Sex, crime, sex-crimes, nepotism, double crosses, scheming, marriages of convenience, alliances with enemies, a leader who has gone insane, take overs, banishing… it’s a gas… if it weren’t real.

 

Part of their operation will be aggressive voter suppression tactics that will likely be criminal. They will undoubtedly take Russian assistance again which is also criminal.

 

She may not even be the worst Republican nominee for statewide office in NC. I would suggest that is Mark Robinson, the R nominee for Governor. He has been (maybe still is) a holocaust denier and has said:

“this foolishness about Hitler disarming MILLIONS of Jews and then marching them off to concentration camps is a bunch of hogwash.”

And
As for other anti-semitic remarks, the News & Observer reports that he once claimed the film Black Panther was “created by an agnostic Jew and put to film by [a] satanic Marxist,” and “was only created to pull the shekels out of your Schvartze pockets."
(his D opponent is Jewish)

His opinion about his LGBT constituents:
In previous Facebook posts, his rants about the LGBTQ community were similarly hateful, in one calling homosexuality a "filthy abomination" and "degenerate, un-natural lust," and in anothersuggesting that gay rights will bring about the end of civilization.

And that, as Christians, we are called to be led by men not women.

When the Parkland school shooting survivors were protesting for more gun control laws he called them “media prosti-tots”.

What to Know About Mark Robinson, North Carolina’s Hitler-Quoting Gubernatorial Candidate

 

Both of these seem possible on some level, but like Bling’s point above about disinformation, there are gray areas here. Eg There are in theory legitimate reasons to restrict mail in ballots and close some polling locations, so even if the party intends both of these measures to simply lower the Democratic voter turnout, without explicit evidence of this motivation, the actions aren’t necessarily going to be deemed illegal from the outside.

 

Barned is an idiot. And easily debunked. The government never sued Clinton for the tapes. Judicial Watch did, and lost. And in the ruling, the Judge in the Clinton case ruled "Personal Records" are documentary materials, diaries, or journals. And the President does not have the ability to declare anything and everything a personal record just on his/her whim. Content matters.

And yes, Trump isn't being charged under the PRA. He's being charged under the Espionage Act. And if the government can prove the documents Trump took aren't "personal records" as defined by Judge Jackson in the Clinton Case, then they aren't personal records, but rather official Presidential Records. And while we don't know the content of the documents, if, for example, Trump had some sort of nuclear secrets or names of people spying for the US, there is no argument that these can be, or can ever be personal records.

 

I would go one step further and say not only would they not be deemed illegal but may be improper to not put some restraints in place.

 

I think "criminal enterprise" is too harsh, but I otherwise agree. The fealty given to Trump is inexplicable, and disgraceful. What people will so to gain power and keep it has always stumped me. They have no ethical or moral compass. I've run for and won an office of significant influence and power and know the temptations. I couldn't have lived with myself had I compromised my values. I don't know how many in today's GOP can. (I always bold type today's GOP because the party has not always been this way.)

 

Of course. I also think there must be some level of restriction that should rightly be considered voter suppression, but I just don’t think this is a clear line that the republicans will obviously cross.

 

Oh I 100% agree that voter suppression should be considered and all attempts to reduce or eliminate, but I don't view ID and polls open 7 to 7 as voter suppression as many here do.

 

We’ll see what the GOP does and how they spend their money. trump family running it isn’t a good start. And Dear Leader himself is a rapist.

It will most likely will be similar to NRA. Using campaign contributions to maintain an opulent lifestyle

“Despite vowing to use the contributions to “stop the steal,” Trump’s committee spent almost none of the money on lawsuits or inquiries linked to the stolen election claims.”

“Evidence showed that the National Rifle Association’s leader lived well on donated money as he fought regulations on firearms.”

Guns and Goodies: How LaPierre Spent the N.R.A.’s Money

Trump spent nearly $1M in donor cash at own properties: report

 

They will also undoubtedly use illegal tactics to fundraise and send the money to Trump's lawyers.

 

Well, if they do, hopefully someone gets the evidence to prove it.

 

I tend to think of Trump's republican party as an idiot organization, incapable of thought independent of the orange god, who is a mentally-disabled part-time rapist/criminal obsessed with money. Did I leave anything out?