Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Individuals Dodging Taxes

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Mar 7, 2024.

  1. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,369
    1,018
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Did you decide to buy via a magic 8 ball?
    Do you follow any of the companies you own or just never look at them again?

    Many of us are buy and selling individual stocks which requires work. That’s why investment firms pay analysts, they don’t get returns by chance. Hardly passive…
     
  2. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    16,837
    5,779
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    I do a little research or meet with my investment advisor, buy, and then let it be. I don't follow the companies closely. It's almost totally passive, and I get run of the mill returns.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,369
    1,018
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Meh it’s only a few people who cares..

    At least you admit those paying income taxes are paying for those who don’t.
     
  4. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,369
    1,018
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Well then you maybe a pretty passive investor.

    Many of us are not.
     
  5. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,369
    1,018
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Let’s do this cap all wealth at 300k.

    Who needs more than that, besides the Gov can do better things with it than the people who have earned it.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. RoideLezard

    RoideLezard VIP Member

    1,433
    363
    1,998
    Sep 10, 2009
    Agreed. Plus, the investors have already pain income tax on the funds once, before even using the remaining after-tax funds to buy the stock. Most of the time when people complain about a low tax rate on dividend income they conveniently omit that it's a tax on income earned with money that's already been taxed once.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  7. RoideLezard

    RoideLezard VIP Member

    1,433
    363
    1,998
    Sep 10, 2009
    Yes, but when you spend those dollars to purchase goods you're guaranteed to receive the goods you chose to purchase. No risk of loss. I'd accept higher tax rates on dividends if the IRS would also compensate me for any investment losses (and, yes, I know how losses are used to offset gains).
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  8. RoideLezard

    RoideLezard VIP Member

    1,433
    363
    1,998
    Sep 10, 2009
    Actually, it is. The top 1% of taxpayers — those who earn $561,351 or more — paid 42.3% of the total tax revenue collected in 2020, according to the latest figures from the IRS. In fact, the top 1-percent of taxpayers paid more income taxes than the bottom 90-percent all together. Additionally, the top 1-percent of taxpayers paid $723 billion in income taxes and the bottom 90-percent paid $450 billion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. RoideLezard

    RoideLezard VIP Member

    1,433
    363
    1,998
    Sep 10, 2009
    upload_2024-3-9_19-50-37.png
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,510
    1,889
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    I don't understand the argument that the funds have already been taxed once. Yes, the money that you used to buy the stock was taxed. But you don't pay income tax on that part of the investment. You pay tax on the profit after you sell the investment. Am I missing something?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

    8,768
    1,060
    3,218
    Apr 3, 2007
    I don’t agree with keeping it where it is. Currently .08% of estates are subject to the estate tax and at an effective rate around 20%. That’s too low. It was around 2% of estates in the early 80s, late 90s/early 00s.
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  12. RoideLezard

    RoideLezard VIP Member

    1,433
    363
    1,998
    Sep 10, 2009
    The magic is in whether that income is taxable income, tax-exempt, subject to deferred tax, subject to taxes offset by deductions or losses, etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. RoideLezard

    RoideLezard VIP Member

    1,433
    363
    1,998
    Sep 10, 2009
    Of course, most investment firms don't even beat a passive index fund once the fees charged (to pay those analysts) are factored in.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  14. magnetofsnatch

    magnetofsnatch Rudy Ray Moore’s Idol Premium Member

    1,008
    258
    1,783
    Apr 10, 2020
    North Florida
    And in 2021 that figure went to 46%. But as dangolegarors will say….that isn’t 50%!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    12,909
    1,727
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    You can do all of that stuff if you enjoy it but it doesn’t buy you anything. If it does, it is luck. Passive investors do better than active, because basically passive = active universe less fees. This has been demonstrated over and over again.

    I don’t do individual stocks. Almost all index funds. I do tilt here and there but I don’t profess it will help me in the long run.
     
  16. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    12,909
    1,727
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    the investor / owner pays corporate income tax (which is remitted by the corporation ) and then pays capital gains or dividend taxes. They are both taxes on return of capital.

    Look at it this way. If you are the owner of a C Corp, you pay corporate income tax, and then pay taxes on dividend distributions or capital gains. If you are the owner of an S Corp the SCorp income flows directly to you at ordinary income rates.

    If the C Corp shareholder is getting such a great deal with low taxes, why do many small businesses opt for S Corp? Because being taxed once is more favorable than being taxed twice.
     
  17. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 26, 2007
    The claim was 'taxes', not just 'income taxes'. And even if 'income taxes' had been specified, 42% is less than the 50% that was claimed. And when you look at all taxes, not just income taxes, the picture changes considerably.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  18. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 26, 2007
    It's a meaningless distinction that the returns are taxed twice. What are the actual rates? If corporate profits are taxed at 1% and capital gains are taxed at 1%, people would gladly take double taxation over a single tax of 20%.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  19. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,369
    1,018
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Index funds are great for slow and steady hands off the wheel. A percent of your portfolio.

    Real gains come with individual companies.
    It’s not based on luck.
     
  20. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

    9,580
    2,225
    3,038
    Dec 16, 2015
    It’s very strange to me that people sit around and contemplate new ways to tax others.
    I find the whole idea sick and unnatural.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1