Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Hi there... Can you please quickly check to make sure your email address is up to date here? Just in case we need to reach out to you or you lose your password. Muchero thanks!

Energy News - Geothermal Power

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Jan 28, 2024.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    I studied OTEC (Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion) for a project in St. Croix. Longtime concept, still trying to make it work. Original facilities to study it are in Kona where they tap into the cold clear primitive water in the Kona trench. Concept is to make energy with the temperature differential between cold ocean water and surface temperatures. In Kona, the water became a tonic sold worldwide as ancient seawater and a source for aquaculture. We had deep ocean trench off north shore of St. Croix for source for OTEC and desal and manmade saltwater pools.

    New plants are now being built to try and make OTEC work. Not sure how I feel about adding more heat to the ocean though.

    this one is a floating one

    New ocean thermal energy device under construction in Canary Islands (thenextweb.com)

    Seven European organisations have teamed up to build a prototype ocean energy device that could power tropical islands with virtually limitless, consistent, renewable energy.
    The technology is called Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC). It generates electricity by harnessing the temperature difference between sun-warmed surface water and the cold depths of the ocean.

    OTEC systems transfer heat from warm surface waters to evaporate a low-boiling point fluid like ammonia, creating steam that drives a turbine to produce electricity. As the vapour cools and condenses in contact with cold seawater pumped from the ocean’s depths, it completes the energy cycle. The technology was first developed in 1881, but never went mainstream due to cost and technical barriers. But with climate change bearing down, a group of entrepreneurs, engineers, and academics from across Europe are dusting off the old idea and giving it a new lease of life.

    this is a modular unit

    140-year-old ocean heat tech could supply islands with limitless energy (thenextweb.com)

    OTEC systems transfer heat from warm surface waters to evaporate a low-boiling point fluid like ammonia, creating steam that drives a turbine to produce electricity. As the vapour cools and condenses in contact with cold seawater pumped from the ocean’s depths, it completes the energy cycle.

     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    13,024
    1,742
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    Small nuclear to run power intensive tech operations conceptually makes a lot of sense. Nukes aren’t going to be the cheapest but they will be consistent and reliable which are much more critical in such tech applicables than saving some money on electric bills.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    for remote areas or for high power demand centers like data centers. eligible for same clean energy grants as wind and solar but able to produce base load demand without battery requirements

    Tiny nukes on trucks: Sub-20 megawatt reactors to power remote areas (msn.com)

    Small modular reactors and microreactors with power generation capacities below 20 megawatts (MW) could help power up remote locations with clean energy. The technology is similar to nuclear reactors used on naval vessels. According to US-based nuclear startup Nano Energy, it could also be deployed to decarbonize industrial sectors such as mining and shipping.
    ................
    The company has also been working on its reactor design and unveiled Zeus, its second reactor. Nano Nuclear has focused on operating the reactor with minimal intervention and equipped it with a walk-away feature that ensures safe and smooth operation.
    ...
    The components of the entire setup can fit a standard shipping container, and the SMR can be easily shipped to remote locations where conventional energy infrastructure isn’t available and large renewable energy projects are difficult to set up.

    In addition to electricity generation, the reactor is also designed to harness heat produced during fission reactions and use it in direct applications. This excess heat can be converted into electric energy to deliver more output.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,907
    1,168
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Funny you posted this as I was working down the thread I thought of the reactors on Subs, they are small, and you don’t hear of them failing(might be a top secret thing). Curious what the output is on one of those.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

    1,963
    759
    2,663
    Dec 4, 2015
    Georgia
    Greater than 20MW. My info on reactors on subs is accurate but dated and probably somewhat limited in what I can share. I will say that they are small yet extremely powerful but that has a lot to do with how enriched the Uranium is, far more enriched than what is required on civilian plants. I would guess this makes them very expensive. They are extremely safe, but again when you have no cost constraints, this is easier.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  6. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

    5,532
    765
    368
    Apr 12, 2007
    Not a fan of distributed nuclear. Just dirty bombs waiting to be made.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    Instead of heating a particle up until it explodes, this approach launches a projectile at extremely high speeds into a target to create the boom. first lab test of theory created a record boom..

    UK startup breaks pressure record with its novel gun-type nuclear tech (msn.com)

    A privately funded UK-based fusion technology startup has announced that it has broken a pressure record for its innovative nuclear fusion technology. First Light Fusion set a new record of 1.85-terapascals using a powerful pulsed machine. This smashes the previous record of 1.5 terapascals, which has remained unbroken for a long time. The record was broken at the US-based Sandia National Laboratories “Z Machine.”
    .......................
    First Light Fusion differs from other companies exploring nuclear fusion in pursuing something called inertial confinement fusion (or simply inertial fusion). This uses a projectile fired at high speed to create extremely high temperatures and pressures to trigger a fusion reaction.

    This projectile compresses a target containing the fusion fuel, which, in theory, should start the process. This is somewhat similar yet different from how fusion works in the Sun. This is somewhat similar to the mechanics behind the first atomic bombs, like “Little Boy” but in a highly controlled manner to provide stable fusion, not a massive nuclear explosion.

    First Light Fusion said, “This differs from approaches pursued by other mainstream fusion companies in that it doesn’t involve using complex, energy-intensive, expensive lasers or magnets.” They added, “Without the need for hugely complex and expensive lasers to facilitate the fusion reaction, this is a simpler, cheaper, more energy-efficient approach to achieving fusion with lower physics risk.”
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    the article mentions the fact that they are building their own fuel enrichment plant to be able to manage their supply chain. rebuilding that enrichment industry is part of the chips act I believe


    Small modular reactors use high-assay, low-enriched uranium (Haleu) fuel that contains up to 20 percent uranium. This is higher than the fuel used by conventional reactors but allows the SMRs to operate using less fuel efficiently while also increasing the lifespan of the equipment.

    To avoid a fate similar to NuScale, Nano Nuclear Energy is now looking to begin Haleu production at its facility in the US. The site for the facility has yet to be disclosed but has been permitted by the federal government.
     
  9. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    one would be shocked to know the amount of "dirty material" in the xray machines and survey instruments and .... that is all around them in their community if one knows where to look. same for chlorine gas and ammonium nitrate and lots of other things that can cause bad problems.

    not saying we need more of it, just sayin..
     
  10. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

    1,963
    759
    2,663
    Dec 4, 2015
    Georgia
    Yeah, I didn't really read too much of that article, just putting my two cents in on the question about submarine power plants.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  11. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

    5,532
    765
    368
    Apr 12, 2007
    But the xray machines and what not may have a few grams of material. Not several kilos like a "small" reactor.

    I totally agree about chlorine gas, ammonia gas, etc. There is a lot of nasty stuff out there that can cause massive acute problems. But those gasses generally "react" and are gone.

    Nuclear reactive material lasts for generations and would be difficult to clean up.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    i agree. I just don't think it takes as much material as some think to cause some long term localized problems at key locations without going into too much detail. Im sure that the thought of small dirty bombs keep people awake at night, or at least I would hope it would.

    Can you harden a facility to protect these small scale reactors and the related material?? Is there a remote self destruct sort of mechansim? is that even possible? they claim to be designed for a walkaway condition where they would remain secure but ???
     
  13. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,907
    1,168
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Just about every radiology department has piles of radioactive material…
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    more than enough to contaminate a water plant or reservoir or airport terminal or a football stadium or .........if someone was really determined. kind of disturbing to me
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    floating OTEC facility to begin construction and testing in 2025. cheaper than land based facilities, will be interesting to see if it works

    Startup revives 140-year-old tech to generate energy for remote areas: ‘Marks the beginning of a renewable transition’ (msn.com)

    To solve this, the Dominique project has commissioned a floating unit that generates electricity with ocean thermal energy conversion (OTEC), an idea rooted in the musings of Jacques Arsene d’Arsonval back in 1881.

    The overall project is expected to have a capacity of 10 megawatts, according to reporting by Interesting Engineering. This would eliminate the planet-warming pollution that would otherwise be created by the burning of more than 138,000 barrels of oil each year, as well as the need for expensive dirty-energy imports.

    “We are on a mission to rid tropical islands of diesel generators,” Grech said.

    As detailed by Global OTEC, which was founded in 2017, São Tomé and Príncipe is an ideal candidate because it lies near the Equator, where the ocean temperature difference is at least 36 degrees Fahrenheit all year.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,907
    1,168
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    And nearly zero security at most places.
     
  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,473
    12,165
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    Nuclear fuel reprocessing. Enough energy in spent nuclear fuel to power the country for 100 years if properly recycled. Why mine more when you have it sitting here in cooling ponds with no long term storage solution for what you have? Carter killed the industry to limit production of nuclear material, CHIPS has helped to revive it by funding the permitting process for a commercial operation to do the work and formulate a process to permit and monitor the industry.

    Jimmy Carter Killed This Technology 50 Years Ago. Congress Is About To Fund Its Revival. (msn.com)

    In the last 47 years, China, France, Japan, Russia and the United Kingdom have all developed the tools to recycle nuclear waste. The U.S., by contrast, made a plan to bury that spent fuel underground and even built a facility — but then abandoned the strategy without any clear alternative. That may soon change. The short-term spending bill passed this week in the U.S. House to avert a government shutdown contains the first major funding for commercializing technology to recycle nuclear waste.

    The legislation earmarks $10 million for a cost-sharing program to help private nuclear startups pay for the expensive federal licensing process ― and for the first time explicitly makes waste-recycling companies eligible, according to separate documents from Congress explaining what’s in the 1,050-page bill that passed Wednesday. “There is developing commercial interest in nuclear-fuel recycling,” said Craig Piercy, the chief executive of the American Nuclear Society. “What Congress is doing is providing some assistance to begin exploring the regulatory pathways to allow this to become a commercial reality.”
    .................

    It’s a relatively small down payment to help launch an industry that may ultimately require billions to get off the ground. But its inclusion in a spending bill with support from both Republicans and Democrats represents a shift on what was once one of the most polarizing issues with atomic energy. While the funding was a particular priority for Rep. Chuck Fleischmann (R-Tenn.), a supporter of nuclear energy, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), a left-wing stalwart, also recently came out in support of recycling nuclear waste.

    “This is a big deal,” said Edward McGinnis, who spent 30 years working on nuclear power at the Energy Department before becoming the chief executive of the fuel-recycling startup Curio. “It’s the first time that we’re seeing recycling and reprocessing as a funding item. That says a lot. That is a reflection of how much the nuclear policy landscape in a bipartisan way has changed.”
     
  18. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    13,024
    1,742
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    I remember out 8th grade science teacher said he had enough chemicals in the class closet that he could contaminate lake Washington in Brevard. No idea if he was FOS. Back then you could say stuff like that…for better or for worse.
     
  19. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

    1,963
    759
    2,663
    Dec 4, 2015
    Georgia
    When I saw you mention ammonia, my first thought was how to deal with corrosion (water chemistry is a huge concern in the steam cycle for nuke plants). Apparently, corrosion isn't an issue with ammonia due to lack of oxygen, very interesting.
     
  20. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

    14,461
    6,326
    3,353
    Dec 11, 2009
    I am not a "Musk-ie". I know very little about him or his philanthropy. If he does a lot of good for other people, then good for him. However, owning Space-X, selling someone else's cars at Tesla and creating a platform for evil and hate mongering to connect and fester does not really rank him near the top of the list of people "we need more people like..." for me.