Mega Church pastor: "slavery is the heart of what it means to be a true Christian”

I’m curious. What difference does the text mean if it is a sermon or an attempt to answer a question?

 

I’ve read this several times, and I’m trying to understand why one needs to be Christian for the sermon to sit well. The passage relates to a time that pre-dates Christianity, if I understand the context correctly. It is a story from the Old Testament. Why is the embrace of Christianity relevant to whether the concept of slavery is acceptable. (I’ve read @Contra posts, where he opines that the story is allegorical, meaning we are all subservient to Christ, but your take seems to more literal, and thus my question).

 

I suspect Q and I are in full agreement on this. All of these propositions are simultaneously true:

1. A true Christian is a slave to righteousness.

2. A person who is not a slave to righteousness is a slave to sin. So in essence we are all slaves of something either sin or righteousness. To truly be free is to be a slave of righteousness.

3. Slavery as practiced in the American south and in Egypt was sinful.

4. Paul said that slaves should submit to their masters.

 

Because Dr. Baucham uses one of the sins that so many non Christians support and calls it for what it actually is. A Christian has a completely different view of Life compared to someone who is not a Christian. Nothing wrong with that. It is just reality.

 

Why do we have to be slaves to anything? I think that is a false premise. I don't think/feel that I am. My thoughts, actions, and behavior are governed by my sense of right and wrong.

 

Because then Mr. Righteous doesn’t get to tell you that you are doomed to eternity in hell.

 

I think I understand? I think you’re saying here that someone’s view of homosexuality, and abortion, are predicted solely on one’s practiced faith. I disagree with this on multiple points (hence the debate itself), but I appreciate the underpinning of the comment. If I am wrong on the assumption, please let me know.

 

Wow. I hope you chiropractor can untangle your after that twist. My point is if MACARTHUR is twisting the more benign slavery that is sometimes mentioned in scripture to the evil that was American history he is way off base.

Geez...even when I agree with some folks... Lol

 

Thats what "slave" means in this context though. We are generally bound to our sense of right and wrong. It is just as a believer I believe I am bound to God's opinion, not my own, but regardless you and I are both bound to something.

And no @BLING this has nothing to do with flaunting righteousness or a desire to condemn anyone to anywhere.

Scriptures tell us that even as believers our righteous works are like filthy rags compared to the one who saves us from our evil ways.

 

Summed up very well.

 

There has always been a conflict in the church between those who view the church primarily or at least heavily as a device by which to socially organize society (largely into their desired hierarchy) and those who view it as a spiritual endeavor that is designed to impact individual actions in ways that might upset existing social order. This conflict manifests itself in racial discussions because race has historically been used in this country in order to create a hierarchy that makes people feel more comfortable with their station in life. That is why you see Christians of the first type defending slavery or Jim Crow while Christians of the second type fight those things.

This is pretty clearly a statement from the Christianity as a social order enforcement mechanism perspective.

 

Then there’s this guy.

Shocking moment retired California pastor scrawls a SWASTIKA on his Jewish neighbor's groceries | Daily Mail Online

 

Another “not a true Christian” Pastor, no doubt.

 

Guessing he is implying that you will be going to hell where apparently it's hot as the sun and you will need sunscreen to protect you.
I've heard similar references like that before.

 

MLK was a Christian conservative man. I didn't look to see who the pastor is, but he is a moron.

 

I would say one’s faith is typically a driving factor in how they view life and issues like abortion and homosexuality. I also believe there are people of faith that claim to be Christian but are sadly not following Christianity. And there are people of different faiths…some that will side more on Christianity’s side and others not so much.

But when it comes to the hot button issues like abortion/homosexuality/race/gender/etc…to have a talk titled “Gay is the New Black”. Will not sit well with some. That is what I was getting at. It is a phenomenal hour imo though!

 

Thank you for posting the link. I listened to the entire message, not just the small part you posted. I will say at the start that I don’t necessarily agree with everything MacArthur says. He is a Calvinist and I am not. I do not believe that God determines everything that happens.

It’s interesting that he starts off by describing some people on Too Hot. He speaks of people who scrutinize everything Christians do in order to come up with things to criticize, to denigrate the gospel, and to put down Christianity. He says these people do it to justify and feel good about their unbelief. I think there’s a lot to that.

He speaks directly to some of the complaints that unbelievers on TH have had about some Christians. He speaks against those who bring shame on the cause of Christ because of sex scandals and money scandals. He criticizes those who live in a way that brings ridicule on the cause of Christ.

The overall thrust to the message is that Christians should live lives above reproach. Christians should set the example of good behavior. He is speaking specifically in the context of the workplace. Christian workers need to be exemplary employees.

I disagree somewhat in his interpretation of 1 Corinthians 7, because he overlooks Paul also saying if a slave has the opportunity to be free, the slave should take advantage of it.

I’m curious, since you seem to disagree with what the Bible says, how do you think an employee should act towards the employer? Would you advise the employee to be disrespectful, to badmouth the boss, to sabotage the workplace?

Even speaking of slaves and bondservants of the first century, what do you think the Bible should’ve said instead of this? Do you think the Bible should’ve instructed slaves to slit the throats of their masters and murder their wives and children? Should slaves have been instructed to rebel, leading to the deaths of many?

The fact is that slavery existed in the first century. The issue for believers was how to live their lives following Christ in those situations. You might wish that the Bible had said all slavery is wrong. But that would do no good to the believer who was a slave. They needed guidance on how to live a life honoring to Christ in their own circumstances.

By the way, read the book of Philemon to see the Apostle Paul’s message to a slave owner.

 

Well Said!!!

 

Well, no true atheist regimes would have killed 100 million, amarite ?

 

That is utterly meaningless. To the extent you want to give it meaning, it is untrue.

The only "view of life" I've seen from the vast majority of Christians is lack of tolerance for others' "view of life", especially, historically, Jews and Muslims. Or is it only Christians who have a pipeline to the Almighty?

Isn't "pride", especially excessive pride, a sin?