U.S. drops humanitarian aid into Gaza while ally Israel obstructs it

Sounds like the ball is in Hamas' court

Israel ‘accepts six-week ceasefire deal’ as Hamas response awaited, US officials say

 

You're the most inspirational, hardcore and raw keyboard warrior around.

Your manly talk about military action which mostly kills kids and civilians gets me so pumped I have to do sets of pushups between reading your posts.

(Probably the only reason I let my eyes rest on the nonsense, actually. )

 

Might as well compare the US in Vietnam to Hamas. After all, we forced people into military service, right?

 

Yet here you are.

You just keep coming back.

 

You have repeatedly said “Israel needs to tone it down if they want more US funding.”

Since you’re so serious, what’s that look like exactly? Is there a cap on civilian casualties Israel can’t hit or else?

Nobody likes seeing innocent people die except Hamas. But given the history here and the sequence of events, it’s not about the number. It’s about the actions from both sides.

You mentioned the Nuke example earlier. Israel has complete air superiority over Gaza. They could’ve leveled the whole thing a long time ago if they wanted to. Yet they choose not to.

If Hamas had that kind of firepower, where would Israel be? I supposed you expect them to simply have the patience to find out despite their history.

 

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

 

I have every reason to be skeptical of the Israeli governments motives. But I am even less confident that there is any workable solution to dealing with Gaza other than beating the shit out of them. Hamas is their government that they elected. Even now there is perhaps not majority but sizable support for Hamas in Gaza. Hamas slaughtered innocent civilians, and many Gazans supported this. There are Gazan families that are assisting in the holding of the hostages. Hamas military weapons and sites are interchangeable with Gazan schools, hospitals and residential neighborhoods.

I see no evidence that a 2 state solution is viable. It isn’t what Gazans want. Mostly they seem to want with the non existence of the state of Israel, or in some cases the extermination of Jews.

Given this context it is hard for me to easily conclude that 25,000 casualties is too many, but some much lesser number is reasonable. Until I have reason to believe there is a viable alternative I will only go so far in being critical of Israel’s tactics. However I will question the motives of the current Israeli government, given their direction before the war and the extremism and incompetence of the far right elements of that government whom Netenyahu has cuddled up to for survival.

 

You have to hold the good guys to a higher standard. It makes what needs to be done harder, but if you don't then you aren't the good guys anymore.
I don't think you set quotas or anything on body count, but you have to see a real consistent effort from Israel to NOT target civilians and to alleviate the devastating humanitarian crisis. Israel is legit using starvation as a weapon - that can't be allowed.
It doesn't matter if Hamas would do it to them. You don't even have to say that part - I know it. But Israel CANNOT be Hamas. They have to be better.

 

And what would “a consistent effort to not target civilians” look like?

Because all I’ve seen you cite is body count.

 

Let's be honest. There is not a viable solution.
But short of exterminating them, there is no where else for the Palestinians to go.
The lack of a clear solution should not allow Israel to be this barbaric.
But honestly, what Israel is doing now just reminds me of the old saying...
A person often meets his destiny on the road he took to avoid it...
By spreading intergenerational trauma at such scale, Israel is just planting the seeds of their own future destruction.
Given that, they should either restrain themselves significantly now, or kill everyone. The middle ground is just violence for the sake of violence.

 

Israel could set up a safe zone for women and children. There could be food and water and shelter. Hell even if they separate out the men so they aren't allowed in, at least the children are safe.
That would be an easy step 1. Cause without men in there, the number of women in Hamas that are actively killing people is pretty low.
Step 2 easy would be ending the use of unguided munitions.

Right there, had they been doing this from the beginning, no one would be up their ass.

 

Perhaps you are right. But where does aggressive defense end and barbarism begin? I don’t know. Given the context of what they have experienced and who they are dealing with I’m hesitant to second guess.

Uktimately in the 2000s Israel ceded the territory back to Gazans and depopulated Israeli settlements there. Gazans promptly elected Hamas as their government. Keep in mind it isn’t just Israel thst barricades Gazans. So does Egypt. I don’t see any Arab countries racing in to help.

If Gaza attacked Egyptian civilians or some other middle eastern country, would you expect restraint?

 

The history of ME countries accepting Palestinian refugees basically leads to the destabilization of that country. They aren't lining up cause they've learned from history.

 

No, but the US wouldn't be supporting Egypt to the same extent they are Israel if Hamas attacked them.
And yes, the whole world would call for restraint just like they are doing now.
Just people in the US specifically would care less, because it would be Muslims killing Muslims and that happens all the time.
I mean, look how little pub the war in Yemen got despite hundreds of thousands of people dying over several years.
The US gives like 4 billion a year to Israel in military aid. And has been doing so for a while (although the amount has increased over time).
So if we don't ask them to show a little restraint, we are basically condoning the massacre of civilians, and we shouldn't be doing that.

 

Right. Good thing the terrorists always have a label on them indicating that they're the baddies, and good thing Hamas hasn't used women and children in the past to execute terror attacks, and good thing Hamas has any sort of interest in actually accommodating such a request.

Don't you think it's even a little telling that like no neighboring country wants anything to do with Gaza refugees, despite aligned interests in some cases with respect to Israel?

 

It's probably time to stop repeating this line. At least without proper context.

Minimally 50% of Gazans are not of voting age right now. In 2006 Hamas won about 75 seats in Parliament while Fatah won about 45. But it was largely a protest vote against Fatah, who was seen as corrupt, more than a total endorsement of Hamas. Since then there haven't been elections.

So it's not entirely necessarily accurate to say that Hamas legitimately represents the current people of Gaza. Not that saying such is a falsehood, but it's complicated.

 

Right. It’s just so hard. So we’re back to the whole being the good guy is hard so eff it let’s just mow everyone down. fine. They deserve it anyways. That’s weak and unprincipled and convenient. And honestly like I said, unless they kill everyone it doesn’t even make sense. They’re just planting the seeds of future attacks.

 

You know Too Hot has gone off the deep end when posters like this one are quicker to justify a vote for Hamas, a group devoted to the extermination of both Israel and Jews, out of protest than a vote for Trump.

 

No, it's not convenient.

Israel is going to have to live with their sins. But that's the point. They value life, they care.

I'm just part of the camp of people who think they have the right to choose defense over being martyrs.

You view the situation as more complicated than that. I'd say if Israel operated its defense exactly as you expected them to in perpetuity, it would only be a matter of time before they cease to exist in that region.

You're right about one thing. Israel can't be Hamas. Here's the good news: They're not, they never have been, and they never will be. No matter what the death count is, Israel for the entirety of Hamas's existence, including now, has valued the lives of the people of Gaza more than the governing body of Gaza itself.

 

LOL. "Justify"? Just accurately pointing out that Hamas is not truly an organization elected by the current population of Gaza. Not that you are actually aware of that or care, lol.


That said, you are a troll. I don't want to block you because I enjoy laughing at your posts, but I will no longer address you, so please do not address me. I'll let you get one more reply in to have the last word since that will probably satisfy your trolling sensibilities.