Judge orders Trump to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

I think it was Phil who raised a great analogy to insider trading. Who's the victim with insider trading? The brokerage firm got their fees and is happy. The counterparty buyer/seller agreed to the transaction at an agreed upon price with which they were happy. The "victim" is incrementally spread amongst thousands of investors which makes is challenging to identify a specific victim.

 

Don't like the laws that are on the books? Contact your elected representatives and tell you want the laws repealed. They wouldn't be singing this same tune if say HILLARY did the exact same thing. hypocrites.

 

Keeping in mind that Scott Adams area of expertise is a cartoonist not as a legal scholar with expertise on business ethics.

 

We don't convict for future crimes although we (the legal system) do impose severe penalties to deter future bad behavior not to mention as punishment for past behavior.

 

This was not a criminal trial, it was a civil trial. There was no conviction, or even liability, based on future conduct. Part of the statute was disgorgement, a deterrent, so that fraud in the future would be discouraged. “What happens next time” is absolutely relevant to a case where the City is suing to protect the People against fraudulent conduct.

 

Doesn't anyone think it is funny for everyone to say there were no victims of Trumps cheating since these loans didn't go bad, meanwhile the guy literally has declared bankruptcy 6 times?

 

It's tough to prove a negative. Do you possess any substantive verifiable evidence any entity "lost out" on a deal because of any Trump organization transaction? Seems if there were injured parties, they would have come forth and testified in the recent trial and/or the financial institutions that loaned money to the Trump organization would have provided that evidence.

As of today, there is no evidence any specific entity or "the marketplace" suffered because of the deals involved in the Trump fraud case. If there was such evidence .... I'm confident Letricia James and Art Engoron would have produced it during the trial.

 

interest accruing at $87k per day..

and apparently using his real estate as collateral isn't being accepted so well by the folks who sell bonds

Trump faces obstacles to securing an appeal bond in fraud case (cnbc.com)

Trump on Friday was ordered to pay about $355 million in penalties, plus more than $98 million in interest after a judge found the former president liable for fraud for manipulating financial statements given to lenders. Every day, the accruing interest adds $87,502 to Trump’s bill.

Unless he wants to pay the entire penalty while his expected appeal is considered, Trump will need to post an appeal bond. This is typically up to 120% of the judgment plus the current interest.

At that rate, Trump’s original ruling with interest would indicate he will need to secure a bond worth more than $540 million. But it’s unlikely that the real estate baron will be able to use his properties as collateral. It’s “not very attractive to take real estate as collateral,” said Neil Pedersen, owner of New York-based surety bond agency Pedersen & Sons.

Trump could have to liquidate some assets to secure a bond, said Pedersen. The bond company will also charge a fee that could total millions of dollars.

 

So he just needs to sell 220 pairs of shoes per day. Easy peasy

 

Interesting point. The specific amounts do seem incredible here. But your post made me think of a possible criminal law analogy (I know this wasn't criminal) - that someone can't be punished for driving under the influence unless and until they actually hit somebody.

 

It is somewhat worrisome to me that if trump were to win re-election with a $500m debt what he might do to settle the debt. The man has no honor or integrity and I wonder which of our secrets and plans he would sell to whom.

 

I wonder if there are any left he hasn't already sold based on the piles they found and haven't found at MLG.

 

he already has documents that the gubmnt never found. those are probably already being auctioned off or included int he sale of an overpriced penthouse somewhere

 

Prime sting opportunity

 

I used to think MAGA Nation would just need a LOT of moral compasses to be recalibrated after Trump was gone. That was obviously incorrect, replacement transplants will be required. The issue is likely to be the scarcity of Republican donors.

People defending Trump's outright fraud here...SMH.

Lock your doors people.

 

Even if he loses, you realize he’s not going to pay anything on either suit, don’t you?

 

He stiffed carpenters, painters, piano sales companies, and investors. It might not be so easy facing an entity that can seize assets. We'll see.

 

You're forgetting that Trump has to post bonds if he wishes to appeal. If Trump loses his appeals, the money is essentially sitting there to be collected.

 

You realize that just because you keep posting this it isn't going to wish it true, don't you?

 

Ok, I understand the point. And, as I said I don't totally disagree and want fraud stomped out just as bad as you do. I just feel the DA ran on getting Trump and used obscure never been used this way before laws to get him. I think the judge would have awarded a judgement against Trump no matter what evidence was presented. That fraud needs to be stomped out also! I do have a question though, has it been published or put forth in the trial exactly what kind of rates Trump loans received vs the market rates at the time for loans of this nature? I do not know, just curious just how much of a financial benefit he may have received vs anyone else that would have been trying to receive the same rates for loans the size Trump took. The bankers wanted to land financials whales like this, same as casinos in Vegas and will provide unbelievable benefits to make that happen.