Judge orders Trump to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

Good question! It may be the verdict is meant as punishment, not as "reimbursement". I haven't followed it enough to really understand who was specifically damaged by the fraud and how.

 

To

To ask the question is to answer it. ("Sheep" is the giveaway.)

 

Looking at it as a retired lawyer and not as one who loathes Trump, I've no problem with the amount. What does concern me is whether the Judge has deprived Trump of his livelihood, and whether that's constitutional......his non-grifter portion that is, if any.

 

A come on man when, after due process and a trial, one of which was a jury of his peers, he was determined to be both a rapist and a fraudster!! I'm partisan, but I can't in my wildest imagination simply ignoring overwhelming evidence contact to what I want to believe.

 

Do you not get that two sets of rules is not in any way American in theory?

 

Don’t sell yourself short. I have faith in you.

 

So, the victims of the Trump organization’s fraud are the shareholders of the financial institutions that provided the Trump companies loans at interest rates lower that those that would have been otherwise “charged” had the Trump organization’s financial statements accurately reflected/reported the financial condition of the companies that were provided the loans.

Seems the logical and equitable distribution of the $360+ million to be paid by Trump should be to those financial institutions and their shareholders.

BTW, regarding the at issue financial statements said to include fraudulent representations on which financial institutions relied in making loans to the Trump organization, I read yesterday they were statements “compiled” by Mazars …… not (GAAS) audited. What sort of financial institution lends $millions$ on compiled (unaudited) financial statements?

Let’s all be honest about this, these lenders wanted to business with Trump and we’re effectively providing signature loans. They weren’t relying on these compiled financials.

 

In financial frauds, the victim isn’t necessarily the bank, not unless the client defaults because of the fraud (in which case the bank would be victimized). The bank is a market comduit. In cases where the crook commits financial fraud to obtain a loan but is still able to repay, the victim is everyone else in the market who didn’t commit fraud.

A lot of people try the “there’s no victim” with illegal insider trading, when in fact the entire marketplace is disadvantaged. Yet, when there’s an insider trading bust it’s not like you should be expecting a check for your $.03 cut. It doesn’t work like that.

 

Please ….. some specifics as to how the market was disadvantaged by the at issue loans made to the Trump organization ….. and how the damages were determined. I’m confident the NY courts have a defined algorithm for calculating those damages to be retained by the state ….. for the benefit of the state.

Alsi, please explain in detail why …. if the market was disadvantaged ….. the market is limited only to NY state?

 

As there is no magical money tree that I’m aware of, when fraud is committed, it means those particular dollars are no longer available to legitimate borrowers. Which means the supply of dollars available by that bank (or indeed all banks) to everyone else is slightly lower, thereby ever so incrementally making the cost of borrowing higher. I believe this case also involved tax frauds which stated the values much lower than for borrowing purposes (which, similar to the banking issue, means Trump’s fraud put the burden on every other citizen and business who honestly filed).

The fraud occurred in NY jurisdiction, and their only interest is obviously state of New York. In a federal case maybe some of the penalty goes to FDIC or something, but most likely it would just go to the treasury. The only time I’m aware of broad attempts to reimburse individuals are when it’s a pyramid scheme or investment scam. In which case they will try to recover whatever is possible for the individuals directly defrauded (often not much relative to what was put in, but asset seizures and stuff can at least get back some pennies on the dollar). As I said, this is treated more like “insider trading” where the fine is more of a penalty than an attempt to reimburse anyone. So NY wasn’t looking at reimbursement, rather how much was illicitly gained. Any penalty should start with illicit gains and then have a punitive layer on top of that.

 

He has not been able to get loans from any US based banks in a long time. That is why Provda Bank holds most of the loans for Trump Inc.

 

Turley shed his legitimacy a long time ago when he started taking checks from Fox.

 

No one ever brings up the 2nd part of the fraud which is Trump got loans by wildly inflating the values of his properties AND then turning around and wildly deflating them when it was time to pay taxes on said properties.

 

Turley is basically just a legal analyst at this point for whatever network pays him the most.

He used to shill for Democrats on MSNBC when Obama was president.

 

The error in your theory is the financial institutions lacked the capacity to make any other loan after it loan money to a Trump entity based upon the allegedly fraudulent financial statements. Is there any evidence that is a fact?

Additionally, is there any evidence any loan to a Trump organization ..... that the seemingly biased lawyer serving as a NY county court judge alleged to be based on fraudulent financial statements ..... resulted in any other entity paying a higher interest rate on any loan from the same financial institution?

With respect to the assertion that the Trump fraudulent statements impacted the marketplace, if one makes that assertion they must acknowledge the marketplace is much larger than New York County and therefore the case should have been prosecuted in a jurisdiction that better reflected the alleged victims ….… “the market”.

It’s nice to parrot these cute hypotheticals that have no basis in realty but ….. they lack all verifiable substance.

 

Yeah but Dems follow legal precedents and logical arguments and Trumpers follow herp derp ones.

 

Time to dig deep people, give until it hurts and ye shall be rewarded ...

Trump Supporters Start GoFundMe Page for $355M Fine (msn.com)

 

you owe it to yourself to read the judges, 92 page ruling.

for the Maga supporters out there, I refuse to have a discussion with you until you read it. It’s worth your time very compelling

 

Can we send in empty soda cans?