Unlikely. Ore deposits like this are extracted through open pit mining approach. The same way you mine for uranium, which poisons ground and the nearby areas for a long time. Coincidentally, and I have not seen this discussed anywhere else, the same ores that contain the lanthanide series elements almost always contain uranium and plutonium. So the mining site will be an ecological night mare, and the waste from processing the ores will be an even bigger mess. As long as they keep all of that cr@p in Wyoming and poison the ground water for one of the most useless states in the union, I am all for it.
All of my reading is that batteries are better than refining and using gasoline. It is a really interesting question though. I have no expertise on this subject but I think batteries are the long term answer.
The salton sea in California already is a toxic waste dump and has enough rare earth elements to provide our needs for a hundred years.
No. Hydrogen is the long term answer. Batteries are great to power a house or car but long haul freight and heavy industries require more energy than batteries can provide. Hydrogen can do this. Rare earth element on a massive scale vs Hydrogen? IDK. H Fueled vehicles still use batteries but refueling takes 5 minutes. The retail infrastructure is already in place and the only thing you would notice differently is the nozzle. 2024 Toyota Mirai | Toyota.com https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/how-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-work.html What is hydrogen? | Hydrogen energy explained | National Grid Group Hydrogen | Climate Solutions Explainer: harnessing the power of hydrogen
That’s way too broad of a statement. It may be the long term answer for fleet operations and aviation but I completely disagree it’s the future for everything. The statement that the retail infrastructure is already in place is incorrect. Hydrogen stations are massively expensive and unless on a pipeline can only refill under 50 vehicles a day as they require storage and consistent trucks delivering hydrogen. They are simply not an easy replacement for gas stations. Further, hydrogen production is energy intensive and expensive and the cost per KG of hydrogen starts around $15 meaning you’re around $.24 a mile to operate an efficient vehicle like the Mirai. A similar EV is far more cost competitive, can charge at home, and doesn’t have the space constraints caused by the massive hydrogen tanks in the vehicle.
hydrogen generation can be powered by renewables. FPL and Duke power are both building green hydrogen plants in Florida right now and FPL plant is in operation. mixing hydrogen with nat gas to power generators to begin with. Florida Power & Light Company announces completion of clean hydrogen hub (nexteraenergy.com) The hydrogen hub draws solar power from a nearby FPL site. A portion of clean energy flows directly to the energy grid, while the rest powers hydrogen production equipment called electrolyzers. The hydrogen is then compressed, stored and blended with natural gas. For this project, a 5% blend of hydrogen will be tested in one of the three natural gas combustion turbines on site. Duke Energy to build end-to-end green hydrogen system in Florida | Reuters Green hydrogen, produced by splitting water through electrolysis using renewable energy, is expected to play a key role in decarbonizing various industries, including transport. Construction of the demonstration project in DeBary would begin later this year and could take about one year to complete, Duke said. The new system would begin with the existing 74.5-megawatt (MW) DeBary solar plant providing clean energy for two 1-MW electrolyzer units.
There's not one universal energy source. That was a broad statement in the first post and a late evening! THat's not how I wanted it to read. I like H power for industry. Massive hydrogen tanks aren't required for vehicles as Toyota and others are demonstrating. The last I checked, battery banks are massive too but both parties figured out how to build a vehicle around them. They all (EV and Hpower) have a long way to go but I like the direction. Using the most abundant element in the Universe for power is the smarter choice in the long run. Long run being the year 2030+. We'll always need long term storage which is where batteries excel. They just take too long to recharge if you're traveling outside your normal ranges. I don't have enough time to look more into the infrastructure elements but light duty stations are already in use in Cali. OLD 2016 Info: It's still not comparable to gasoline in 2024 but slowly getting there. If it cost $55 to fill up my truck, then Hpower would cost $80-90. One idea China or Korea (i forget) is implementing for EV refueling is swapping out battery packs. This requires standardization on a large scale but it's a great idea to speed up refueling.
Hydrogen will have it's place, but I'm incredibly skeptical it's going to be in the passenger vehicle space. There are simply too may obstacles to overcome. As stated, establishing a large, nation wide distribution system of a highly explosive gas is going to be prohibitively expensive - whereas the infrastructure is largely in place for EVs today. Improvements need to be made, but those will be made in lock step with EV growth and they pale in comparison in both cost and complexity to creating a H network. BEVs are far more efficient that Hydrogen as well. Any study that tries to tout hydrogen as similar or better are often citing the most expensive means of powering EVs in their comparisons. Range and refeuling will be less and less of an issue as batteries improve and charging infrastructure gets put into place. California literally can't pay people to drive the Mirai. They practically give the car away for free and owners give them up. Additionally, and I haven't experienced this, but driving behind one is like driving behind someone with the windshield washers fluid spraying out non-stop. I could only imagine every car on the road spraying every other car on the road continuously. I would assume that Big Windsheild Washer lobbyists are all for it.
Well aren't you just a barrell full of optimism! Two drops in a bucket is half full to you, ain't that so? (sadly though, you're point is well taken).
Hydrogen may have its place but like @exiledgator I’m skeptical of the passenger vehicle use case. A couple areas from your post I think you make the wrong assumptions are 1) static battery charge time and energy density as these are constantly evolving both reducing and increasing respectively, 2) hydrogen is abundant but we can’t just scoop it up as it requires massive amounts of energy to create, 3) yes, there are hydrogen stations in California but they’re expensive, have limited capacity due to having to store the hydrogen, are not a simple replacement for gasoline stations, and it’s highly explosive unlike batteries or even gasoline, and 4) the Mirai does have a hydrogen tank size problem as reviews have talked about how cramped it is despite it being the size of Toyota’s flagship sedan (BEVs don’t have the issue since they can utilize the skateboard design and many, like the R1S, have far more storage capacity than their ICE counterparts).
Yep, H powered vehicles have a long way to go. I ain’t no car salesman, dudes! Lol… I am sure the Mirai is better suited for Japan and other Asian markets with limited hydrogen refueling systems already in place. I like my Silverado, personally. As it stands, the Mirai is struggling to get to get traction anywhere right now. We’re not talking about millions of units sold here. The hydrogen auto market is still in the .1 million units sold. I like the direction Toyota and Honda are going as they have more of a need for altfuels than the US. Toyota and Honda bet trucks will get hydrogen economy rolling.
The other thing that's a problem with hydrogen is that, as one of the smallest molecules there is, it is difficult to contain. Leaks are generally the rule, not the exception. It is much easier to contain gasoline or even propane compared to hydrogen.
Yeah it's tiny. THe storage tanks are pressurized to 10kips! I was wondering about consumer safety but there's not much information since the tech is still new(er). How safe are hydrogen fuel cell cars in a crash?
Our lithium batteries should get cheaper in the near future, thanks to Argentina. They have four new lithium mines coming on-line this year. The only downside? The world doesn't really need any more lithium right now. Argentina Is About to Unleash a Wave of Lithium in a Global Glut
