I think we're missing each other's point here. Are you saying that student athletes are employees of the university? Or, did I just misread your intentions. These players are not employees of the school just becasue they attend classes at a particular school.
he saying that if you want to control them, they have to be employees. You can’t have your cake and eat it too
I don't agree with that. I do NOT want these student athletes to become employees... which I wanted him to give me clarity on. That changes my entire respoce to his post. I knew were were talking about two very different things. As it stands NOW, they are NOT employees and that's the conversation I want to have... not a hypothetical college football player employee conversation. It's NOT happening and I will not waste my time entertaining a dream.
The thing is, in professional sports, the salaries of athletes are regulated. Salary caps, and so on and so forth, dictate salaries.. Players have to sign with the team that drafted them or face consequences. Players can't jump from team to team. Players get traded at the whim of the teams involved, with permission of the league. It is by no means typical free enterprise American capitalism. The NCAA is a private non-profit corporation. It generates massive revenue, but does not operate at a profit, nor do the athletic associations at the universities that are members. The NCAA is a membership organization; membership is voluntary. Members are expected to abide by NCAA rules, which private membership organizations are legally entitled to enforce, for the most part. Want to join that fancy country club down the road? Go for it, but if they require that you wear a jacket to dinner, you'd better do so if you want to eat. Professional athletics, and especially college athletics, are not free enterprise capitalistic operations. Given that membership in the NCAA is voluntary, the recent shot across the bow by the SEC and BIG would suggest that leaving has become a consideration-at least for them. If they do, don't think they will handle it well. They are going to have to form a whole new league--for all sports, with no base experience in how to do that. Talk about a sh.tshow. As for other schools, they may opt to stay with the NCAA. I could see why they would want to. Who knows?
Currently they are not employees. That is why the school cannot limit their outside employment (NIL) or right to transfer (portal). The answer to those issues that are ruining the game is to make them employees. When you do that, the employer (university) can limit their outside employment and transfer rights. Their attendance of classes at a school does not confer rights to the school to do either, only making them an employee does. It does not matter what you or I like. Legally, only an employer/employee relationship allows limiting the issues we care about - NIL/portal.
This is exactly what the SCOTUS said when they laughed the schools/ncaa out of court. Either they are amateurs who can transfer freely and work outside of their amateur activity, or they are employees with whom an employer can negotiate limits (transfer/outside employment, etc).
NIL is a farce. I think the bottom line is that entity A can give entity B whatever amount of money they want, and as long as the taxes are dealt with according to the law, there is not a damn thing anyone can say about it. Other than signing a legally binding document that restricts your NIL enticement, I don’t know that anything can be done.
Yeah, the player's union and lawyers... err... agents will never let schools take more than half of all the football network money.... Full employment to the school is a nonstarter, IMHO. Collective bargaining... and all kinds of other concessions will make the student athlete and the NIL of the past look like a distant dream type situation for the schools. And that's just football... what happens to the other sports? Colleges would have to literally gut all other sports to pay for football. I think student athletes should remain students, and let the alumni pay (NIL) for sports and not the schools.
We’ve been in a dream state for 30-40 years and the reality is coming to light. This isn’t a new working relationship, just a more expensive one with a portal that makes it infinitely worse. When nfl owners started making cash in the 70’s, the players had to fight to get what they deserved. This is no different really. I’ll lose interest in this just like nfl more than likely. I have no interest in millionaires fighting over cash with no loyalty to team nor school.
I do not see schools making athletes employees without control on NIL. IF they are going to pay and employ the players, that's all the players get. And employment will come with a whole lot of conditions. Surely, all of you have thought through what you are suggesting in terms of the long term arrangements. The nightmare scenarios are endless. As screwed up as the NCAA is, burning them down and trying to form another league/system/whatever, is much, much worse. So the BIG and SEC are going to form an alliance to resolve the problems? Ha ha ha. I'm sure they will work so well together. One sport is causing all of this trouble-football. The NFL has to let high school kids go straight to the NFL or their development league, just like basketball and baseball do. If they chose college, they have to live by the rules, with no payment other than a scholly , except for documented use of their NIL where THEY cut their own deal. No collectives, no university, involved.
Nil wouldn’t go rampant with players under contract. All major sports have a working system Ang fake nil is a waste of money for players under contract. The systems have been refined for decades. It’s all been worked it.
Over many decades, yes. Right now, there is no system in place in college to control the situation as the pros have done. The only thing I take some comfort in now, is the fact that the SCOTUS specifically mentioned that among the benefits college students shouldn't expect from their schools were lamborghinis. Isn't the leghumper Carson Beck poncing around in a lambo?
Couple of thoughts: - “Students remaining students” while alumni pay them millions? That is exactly what we have now where because the schools have no contractual/employment relationship with the athlete, they have no right to limit transfers/NIL. There are only two choices: what we have now (alums pay players and portal) or athletes become employees. The SCOTUS laughed the NCAA alternative of no NIL/portal out of court. - Second, as to other sports, football/mens hoops have payed for the “other sports” for decades. One could manage Title IX and do the business thing: let your cash cows run, meet the legal requirements (keep some other sports), and fund the minor sports at a level of funding commensurate with their revenue. That is capitalism and, honestly, sports like women’s soccer will survive and represent students competing far more than UF football. Finally, there is a strong argument to be made that UF, or any serious academic institution, should get out of the sports business. That means true student athletes that must be admitted academically, no big tv contracts, no SEC, etc. We would still have women’s softball, a hoops team, tennis, and a football team. Just no team planes, millionaire coaches, skyboxes, etc. If we really want to reject this conversion of a beloved amateur endeavor into a billion dollar enterprise, that is the way. Never gonna happen but more realistic than wishing for a court to rule that the NCAA can reap money off of student athletes AND control students from transferring or getting outside employment.
What other league has had 50+ years of a third party system funding all of their facility upgrades, players, coach buyouts, etc, etc, etc? What other league had a legit system in place to supplement a payroll with third party money before they ever even established a payroll of their own?
If you are an employee of entity A, they damn sure can restrict you from taking money or moving to another job freely. How else do you think every sports league works? As for NIL, sure the restrictions have to “be reasonable” but they can. Be enforceable. Companies can try to limit NIL as off duty employment that has potential for harming the reputation of the employer (especially as part of collective bargaining). Employer Control of Employee Off-Duty Conduct is Limited. In the end, NIL is a bunch of guys who are wealthy enough to throw around millions, but not wealthy enough to own a pro team, pretending they are players. It is not sustainable at the current level (though thousand dollar handshakes and cars will certainly continue). The main issue is the portal and that is clearly legally addressable by making players employees.
I guess the nfl was similar before the money blew up and players became millionaires. In the sixties, football players that were educated took real jobs. Times have changed
The NFL never had a third party system setup to supplement income and entice players to sign with certain teams. Not that I’m aware of. Also don’t remember fans funding their facilities and such. Cities may fund stadiums to lure teams there, but that has little to do with sports and more to do with building an economy.
Fixing the transfer portal clusterf#*! Won't fix NIL but it would fix one of the main issues I've been hearing coaches gripe about recently including Saban and that is having to re recruit your own players that are already and have been on the team. That makes trying to build a balanced team with a solid foundation from HS recruits. It's also BS that the school invests its time and resources (ie: initial recruiting costs, S&C program, nutritional programs, housing, coaching, etc) only for them to bounce to another school before the school that invested has a chance to get some type of return for their efforts. I think the 1 year transfer rule was fine, and it at least curtailed alot of this "wild west" transfer portal. And that doesn't even take into account how all these kids transfer and a majority don't find new homes. And If they do, Does that school have the same major as the original school? And what if they don't get another scholarship offer ? Then their college education is shot because they can't get in to finish their credits to graduate. It's a slippery slope when chasing that bread
