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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Since you haven’t watched it, my favorite part is where Putin’s compares himself to Hitler in blaming the victim for their own invasion. Paraphrased: “If Poland would have just given Germany the land it demanded, then Germany would not have had to invade. Same with me and Ukraine. Look what they made me do.” I was not persuaded of the justice of Putin’s cause until he presented me with that crisp logic.
     
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  2. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Well that seems a rather lucid, crisp, substantive response from someone who appears to have watched it. May I therefore safely surmise that your brains did not drip through your ears, your head didn't explode, and/or otherwise suffer any severe damage?

    ...just a couple of (perhaps wasted) hours of your life?

    (i.e.--no worse for the wear than pissing away a couple of hours of precious life on this site?)
     
  3. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Everyone's shock over this show their lack of understanding history, as Putin's former USSR signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact with Hitler days prior to the invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany. The dispute was over lands that were previously German prior to WW1. It would be silly for Putin to deny all justifications for Hitler's invasion of Poland, as his own country signed onto the deal which gave Hitler the blessing to move on those disputed areas of Poland and Russia had their own concerns about Poland. The USSR invaded Poland two weeks later.

    Hitler and the Russians were allies up until Operation Barbarossa. So it shouldn't shock anyone that Putin would echo certain Hitler talking points. As with all of the other bad actors we've seen in the past two centuries, while he was completely unhinged and extremely deranged, it is still important to understand why Hitler and Germany did what they did. Not that it makes it correct, but still...understanding it provides value. But yeah, I don't think you're going to get Putin to say the opposite regarding Poland and Hitler, when his own country did the same thing two weeks later and had a pact with Hitler. That shouldn't shock anyone.
     
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  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    No “shock” over the history. Only amused surprise that someone as smart as Putin fancies himself thought that would be a compelling argument.
     
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  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Of course, I watched it. Said I would. I was hoping to be surprised with at least one question I wanted the answer to — such as “How many Russian soldiers do you claim have been killed since the start of your ‘special military operation?’” “What is the fate of the missing Ukrainian children?” “At what point does your ‘special military operation’ become war?” “When do you project to have air superiority in Ukraine?” and so on — but that did not happen. Now I doubt it, but maybe Carlson did ask some of those. I guess that’s what happens when you give the interviewee final editing cut, which is standard journalistic practice in most of the world.
     
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  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think Putin viewed that interview as an opportunity to "make his argument" for Russia. In his mind, he doesn't need to make an argument. It was more of a matter of fact interview.
     
  7. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    By the way, if Putin has the Russian people sold on the denazification narrative, you can forget about breaking their will on the battlefield. All Russians have WW2 permanently etched in their minds. And you can thank idiots like Justin Trudeau for inviting Zelenskyy along with former Nazi SS officers to receive thunderous applause in Canadian parliament for cementing the denazification narrative Putin is pushing. A colossal blunder if your goal is to break Russian will in Ukraine. A photo of Zelenskyy applauding a Nazi SS officer is what they would refer to as bulletin-board material.
     
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  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    If he actually had the Russian people behind this war, and was not concerned with keeping the domestic turmoil below a boiling point, then why has he not conducted any serious offensive operations? Why has he refused his generals insistence that the next round of mobilization is necessary? Please, with the Nazi-purging narrative. That was something they came up with at the 11th hour when our intelligence services blew up the false-flag Ukrainian attack that was supposed to serve as the pretext. And the war was only supposed to last a couple of months, after which they could parade as many confessed Nazis as they needed to. No one was supposed to seriously examine that juvenile canard.
     
  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  10. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm not saying the denazification narrative is legit. Putin is using propaganda tactics just the same as we do here. As to why he's not pursuing more aggressive offensives, again, I don't think that was ever the plan. His concern about denazification involves their activities against ethnic Russians in the Donbass. I don't think his concern about it goes beyond the traditionally ethnic Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. So that would also explain his lack of push.

    But I wouldn't discount the denazification narrative full stop. There's a problem when Canadian parliament and Z are applauding a former SS officer. That would never happen in DC. Could you imagine the outcry? Something is not right with that situation. So I could see Putin also wanting Z replaced, but that doesn't require major offensives either.
     
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  11. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Even if you want to buy that Putin’s scaled-back objectives were the objectives all along, hopefully you understand that right now, at this moment, Ukraine is sitting on territory that Russia annexed following sham elections in 2021, don’t you? This is territory Ukraine recaptured in vicinity of Kherson and Kharkiv following its successful counteroffensives that summer. So how does Putin justify not “liberating” parts of Russia? There are only two possibly options: Putin is unable or Putin is unwilling. I will let you judge which it is and why.
     
  12. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Be careful what you wish for. The land you speak of that is under Ukrainian control isn't much. Russia controls most of it. Russia could easily launch are larger offensive into the fall months, Trump gets elected, settlement comes in the winter.
     
  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    We don’t even have to posit scaled back objectives. We know that Russia entered theatre with no more than 100k to 120k troops. So rather than scale back, Russia has dramatically scaled up over time.
     
  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Easily, huh? This war has been a disaster for Putin in many ways. If it was “easy,” then he would do it. I keep hearing (as in for over a year now) that this easy operation to sweep away the Little Russian Nazis is coming any day now, so Ukraine had better give in immediately. I’m prepared to believe it. After all, Russia has nearly every advantage and should be able to defeat Ukraine. But Russia is going to have to prove it with actual success on the battlefield, not just threats of success.
     
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  15. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Let’s not re-write history. Hitler and Russia were NOT allies. They loathed each other. What they did was signa non-aggression pact where they agreed to split the spoils of Poland. They weren’t buddies, they weren’t friends, they weren’t allies. It always just a matter of time until one of them violated the non-aggression pact. Hitler just did it faster than anyone anticipated (not to mention it was probably the biggest colossal strategic mistake he made during the entire war).
     
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    As my colleague Tristan Justice noted yesterday, McConnell and Tillis and other Ukraine hawks in the GOP don’t care what actual Republican voters think about any of this. An NBC News poll in November found just 35 percent of Republican voters support more funding for Ukraine, and a Gallup poll out around the same time found much the same. No matter. Those are just the unwashed, unbriefed hoi polloi. McConnell and Tillis would very much like them to shut up and go away, thanks.

    You Don't Need To Be A Senator To Oppose More Ukraine Funding
     
  17. cocodrilo

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    Why don't we just elect Trump and have his policy of letting Russia do what the hell it wants to in Europe? Those Europeans are so damn stingy with their defense money that it makes Trump's blood boil. And we know how hard that is to do. Actually I think Trump wouldn't mind seeing Russia take over Europe, I think his vision is a U.S. dictatorship as part of a triumvirate, in which he, Putin, and Xi rule the world. Those three buddies could have annual, monthly, or even weekly summits, to enjoy golden showers or whatever else they want. Trump could even meet with his lover Kim on the side, though Kim will probably be pissed that his nuclear arsenal has been all for nothing.
     
  18. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    Saw earlier one of the EU countries (Sweden?) said Russia was swinging the momentum its way. Not surprising with US aid not coming through.
     
  19. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    If it was so freakin easy, Russia would be at the western frontier of Ukraine licking its chops at the likes of the Baltics, Poland, Romania etc. Is that what the russsophiles in our midst want? Clearly not in the interests of the US for that to happen.
     
  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    If we let Russia do whatever the hell wants does that mean they’ll be able to throw this election without having to shell out $400 for Facebook ads ?