Thinking of it in terms of self-defense; do you hope your assailant tires himself out before he kills you, develop some self-defense techniques, or work on your foot speed?
There is nothing remotely similar to the issues here and the false equivalencies you bring up. For example, who appeased Ghengis before his army was at full strength, which allowed him the time to grow his army and empire at the same time?
Of course it does, people appease us all the time and they get weapons and money from us in exchange for not getting bombed/sanctioned. They even can get away with all sorts of bad behavior against their own people or neighbors if it is in our interest or doesnt conflict with it!
I would say history is full of examples of various peoples paying tribute to powerful empires and/or rulers in exchange for relative autonomy, its also full of examples of people being wiped out when standing up to expansionist powers rather than bend the knee. Why does it always come down to Hitler lol?
It’s an easy example here on appeasement. We know what happened, it’s a fact pattern on point, and it’s an easy reference. Why wouldn’t we cite to it?!
Some experts explain the reasons that Putin invaded Ukraine. One thing I found interesting is that Russia has a different definitions of Nazis than the west does. A Nazi is anyone who does not like (or fears) Russia. It turns out that to Russians, most of the world is Nazis. If you fail to worship Putin and his barbarian hordes, then you are a Nazi. Another reason for the invasion was Ukraine's arrest of Putin ally Viktor Medvedchuk, who was Putin's best chance of bringing Ukraine under Russia's control without a war. Apparently, NOT bringing Ukraine under Russian control was not an option. The experts also disavowed any mention of NATO expansion as a cause of the war. NATO never did put any troops in the small countries it added in 2004, so why would adding Ukraine a couple decades later suddenly be a threat to Russia? The main reason that they invaded Ukraine is Putin's legacy. All of the great Czars in Russian history expanded Russia's territory, so that is what Putin must to do to join them. His ego will allow no other conclusion to the war while he is alive. Why did Russia invade Ukraine? Experts break down Putin's motivations and excuses for launching his war.
Ukraine uses drones to attack two oil refineries about 12 miles apart in the province east of the Black Sea. One refinery suffered a large fire and the fate of the other is unknown at this time. The $50 million cost of the refinery seems unusually low for a large-scale processing unit. Typical large chemical plants are usually a few hundred million. Ukrainian drones struck Russian oil refineries, Security Service source confirms
Hitler was the most recent world leader intent on capturing multiple countries in an empire building bid through military conquest. He also believed strongly in torturing people, just like Putin. Hitler's Germany (along with Japan) are the only ones to have a fair amount of military success in conquering other countries in the age of mechanized warfare. Ukraine is closer to Europe than Asia; hence the validity of a Hitler comparison with Putin. The key difference is that Hitler actually went into his war with better military technology than everyone else had at the time; Putin only thought he did.
Speaking of Hitler, Putin has gone on record defending his hero Hitler and blaming Poland for forcing Germany to invade them. For some reason, this has pissed off Poland. Poland was unwilling to completely give up the city of Gdansk to Germany, so this was a good justification for invasion. (Gdansk is not a border town between the two countries; it is a Baltic Sea port city in the middle of Poland's north coast. Many Germans immigrated there starting in the 1100's, and lived alongside Polish people. The city became part of Prussia after the Napoleonic Wars, and became a free city after WWI. During the rise of the Nazis in Germany, Germans in Gdansk started becoming violent towards Polish residents. The local Nazi Party took control of Gdansk politics in 1933.) Maybe this will help remind the Polish people of why Russia needs to be defeated--because they are next. Time to get those trucks rolling at the border . . . Poland has a choice to make: continue to be stupid and squabble over nickels and dimes on border fees for truckers, or get serious about their freedom. Putin justifies Hitler's actions: The Poles were uncooperative. Poland expresses outrage Putin does like to throw sh!t at the wall and see what sticks. He doesn't have much use for the truth, however. Gdańsk - Wikipedia So there you have it. We can now say that we compare Putin to Hitler, because Putin himself is willing to associate himself (and his justifications for war) with Hitler.
Before Ukraine cites were bombed, yes I agree try diplomacy. I would like us to develop a stronger global diplomatic outreach. But in the midst of attack INTO another country the only thing keeping Russia from destroying that country is force. But appeasing a murderous Putin will suddenly work? Give him and his army whatever they want, “hoping” they stop? “Ok this time putin will stop. Putin, Ukraine is all yours friend. Have at it with widespread atrocities. You are unhinged but we’ll just keep our fingers crossed you don’t next go into the smaller Baltics, and then…” Appeasing aggression, violence, and murder doesn’t work.
If you had been in charge during WWII, half the country would be speaking German, the other half Japanese and The Man in the High Castle would be a documentary.
TORONTO — The speaker of Canada's House of Commons resigned Tuesday for inviting a man who fought for a Nazi military unit during World War II to Parliament to attend a speech by the Ukrainian president. Just after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered an address in the House of Commons on Friday, Canadian lawmakers gave 98-year-old Yaroslav Hunka a standing ovation when Speaker Anthony Rota drew attention to him. Rota introduced Hunka as a war hero who fought for the First Ukrainian Division. Observers over the weekend began to publicize the fact that the First Ukrainian Division also was known as the Waffen-SS Galicia Division, or the SS 14th Waffen Division, a voluntary unit that was under the command of the Nazis. https://www.npr.org/2023/09/27/1201...Nazi veteran to,speaker drew attention to him.
Seems really odd Zelenskyy and Woke Trudeau were cheering a Nazi war criminal in Canadian parliament.
A little historic context would be useful. There were Ukrainians who did support the Nazis when Germany invaded Ukraine keeping in mind that under the Soviet Union millions of Ukrainians lost their lives from starvation as the result of a famine orchestrated by Joseph Stalin. For the most part that support ended when the Ukrainians realized that the Nazis were even worse than the Soviets. In case you aren't aware: How Joseph Stalin Starved Millions in the Ukrainian Famine I'm not defending them but it does provide a rational explanation of which you are probably unaware.
I do not understand why some posters in this thread are so vigorously opposed to acknowledging facts. The United States has a long history of working with some of the shadiest dealers on the planet. Perhaps our hearts were in the right place at those times, perhaps not, but it doesn't change the fact that we've supported and funded some very unsavory characters in the past. So, it's not very surprising that we are not being told about the Nazism which permeates this conflict. I mean, it is what it is. It doesn't make Putin a superhero, but it is a fact. When we begin suppressing facts, I become concerned.
Yes! This is discussed in depth and at length in Tim Snider’s book Bloodlands. It would be a useful resource for the Russian apologists hereabouts.
From the Russian point of view, not wanting Ukraine to be in NATO is understandable. Not wanting Nazism running rampant on your western border, understandable. Unfortunately, we can't just do whatever we want to do and then point the finger when a country defends its interests. Just as recent as 2008, France and Germany didn't want Ukraine in NATO, so it's not like we don't understand Russian concerns. Some here want to ignore them, but if the same were happening to the United States, you'd be very concerned. I'm concerned that our taxpayer dollars are going to arm Nazi battalions in Ukraine.
