I think the parents are more culpable than the kid. He was out of his mind. They were criminally negligent. If we ever hope to correct our society, we need to hold parents (not teachers, society, TV, social media...) accountable for their children's actions. Until then, we continue to enable and excuse negligence, and empower/ enable children to believe society owes them anything. The conviction of mom here, is a step in the right direction. I'd like to see the prosecutor offer the parents a life sentence without parole, in exchange for the kid getting parole after 30 years. The kid represents a chance at redemption. The only use for thr parents is as deterene and precedent. Jmho/fwiw.
Nice thought and I could warm up to this. You know it would impact the kid quite a bit if his folks spent the rest of their lives in prison due to his actions. But at the same time, it may jade him if he seems them freed in a short amount of time while he’s serving life without parole. Tough call, but I think I like your idea as a worthy concept to consider.
I don't think anyone willing to shoot up a school of kids is worried about how their actions will affect anyone else at all.
I wonder if there was a toxicology? I suppose if he was on drugs, legal or illegal, his attorneys might have used that for mitigation in terms of sentencing? Either way, I'm not sure what he could have been on that would have resulted in sustained and continued hallucinations over time. Just speculation but sounds similar to me as a case we had here of a young man with severe schizophrenia. That said, the guy I'm talking about was ruled unfit to stand trial, so I'm not sure what to make of the fact that this guy was apparently.
What they did seemed pretty egregious. Kid had issues so they bought him a gun? Apparently she testified and the jury didn’t like that her response about doing things differently (she actually answered no). I’m glad the parents will have accountability, but no this is just incredibly dumb. Letting a mass killer go free but not the parents? Come on. These people’s lives are ruined, what’s the point of life incarceration? The kid can never go free because of the seriousness of the crime and the off chance he’d do it again. I doubt there is similar concern with the parents. The mom’s claim was that the son was having anxiety issues, but they didn’t seem to be serious enough for professional help. There’s literally millions of parents who would overlook a few “acting out” incidents before seeking psychiatrc help. I didn’t read all the details about how long he was having issues, it sounded like most of the “mistakes” the parents made were within weeks, with the actions on the “day of” being flatly ridiculous. What this woman (and husband) needed to be punished for is putting the gun in his hand and being negligent with it, there was some uniquely stupid stuff these people did to make charging more obvious than typical. Doesn’t matter if the kid is 5 or 15, i think parents should be accountable for the guns their minor children do damage with. But I think a charge of negligent homicide is appropriate given the facts.
Conversely, if the kid learned his parents took his life sentence for him, he might realize he was in fact loved by them. That's part of why I suggested the prosecutor offering the folks that option. Most likely, these parents wouldn't even consider such an option. I know I'd pounce on such an offer in a New York minute--as would most parents I know. It's an opportunity to redeem themselves of the cloud of ... shitty parenting, and a second chance for the kid.
A 15 year old kid imho, has the potential of redemption until proven otherwise. Shooting up a school is admittedly about as bad as it gets....but there remains a possibility there that can't be extinguished until at least s decade or 2 has elapsed.
I think you misread my post. I actually think it would lend to possible rehabilitation in the kid if the kid saw his parents put away for life for their negligence. Even if that rehab takes place with a life sentence still in place for the kid. He's obviously a troubled kid and hopefully at some point in his life realizes the gravity of everything versus just another hardened criminal. But, I will grant you, I am likely wishful thinking.
Probably not often I like one of your Too Hot posts, but props here. I'm with ya on this. There are reasons that young people's lives were extinguished on that particular day and the parents were likely the root of the cause.
If we as a society are going to afford freedoms to most who feel the need to own killing machines, then parents are going to have to bear certain responsibility. If the parents shouldn't be culpable for such negligence, maybe we oughta rethink this whole freedom-to-shoot thing.
Parents should absolutely have culpability because of the gun and the negligence on the day of the shooting (on that very day school wanted him sent home, parents said “sorry I gotta get back to work”). I just found his idea of giving the parents life without parole and the mass murderer the possibility of parole to be completely crazy. I’ve seen a few posters suggest jailing the parents more generally for raising bad kids, even where a link to the murder weapon isn’t so direct (such as in this case). I’m sorry, but that’s just nutso. Sometimes a kid is just a bad seed or makes bad choices even with good parenting and vice versa…15 year old is old enough to be charged as an adult and I think that is society recognizing that at 15 there is some individual responsibility for serious crimes. I think people who lend out their guns or sell guns without background checks should be held accountable when those guns are used in murders, but even in those cases unless the circumstances of the transaction were crazy I wouldn’t say “life without parole” for anyone but the killer. The penalty for the provider of the weapon is more appropriately “accessory” or “negligent homicide” imo. The parents in this case fit those general terms of allowing an unstable person to access their weapon.
I agree in principle. Like many others have said this is (yet another) very sad situation for all involved. My thought, though, is that if this nation is ever gonna get its head out its a$$ on gun violence, it will take some close-to-home scenarios before anything meaningful gets done. Severe situations sometimes call for a shock to the system with fallout. Unfortunate that these parents may constitute the fallout, but what was the fallout of the parents who lost their children? My progressive friends will disagree and that's ok. When it comes to gun violence, I reserve the right to be wrong. I'm ready to slap some shit on the wall to see what sticks. And it won't be pretty at times/places.
@BLING To be clear--my suggestion was for Prosecutor to offer life for possibility of parole for kid (further explained in my nxt post--#27)--not that a sentence as such be imposed without their cooperation. The calculation is that the parents would not accept, but be given an opportunity to do something noble. The kid still serve serious time. I realize its unorthodox, and perhaps not even be doable as I suggested (could be tweaked to meet the suggested policy interests...)--but I think it'd be an angle worth exploring. Fwiw.
Perhaps the parents were negligent, but involuntary manslaughter seems excessive to me. Not saying a reasonable jury can’t find for that, just how I see it. Is it ever foreseeable that your child is going to shoot up a school? Nobody ever wants to believe that. Should be some lower level crime here that is more proportional to their actions. The person who pulled the trigger is not the same as the parents of that person, no matter how stupid they look with the benefit of hindsight.
I view charging parents with involuntary manslaughter in these cases is kind of like charging this kind of parent with involuntary manslaughter: Parents know kid (with driver’s license) drives recklessly frequently and has a couple tickets. They let him borrow the car in their name despite that. Kid accidentally kills someone while driving recklessly in parent’s car they lent him. Should the parents be on the hook for involuntary manslaughter?
I mean, we could just do a better job regulating guns before essentially handing out death sentences (which is what life without parole may as well be) for “negligence” or “poor parenting”. If the parents had a mandatory gun safety class or mental health training or something to do with minors in the home could that have been the difference? Who knows. These things aren’t always foreseeable, but the fact the mother thought the son might commit suicide tells me there’s more to it and the gun should have been out of the picture. Not sure what they were thinking. It is notable how many of these shooters had easy access or stole a parent’s weapon (in many cases killing the parent, in those cases the idea of “punishing” the parent becomes moot). So doesn’t seem like much of a deterrence overall. Some of these kids are just evil, and overall I think social media is more of a factor than good or bad parenting. Ultimately, the common factor in all mass shooting cases is easy access to guns. Almost every one has warning signs where you ask how the f did that guy get a bunch of weapons or have them in the home. If they didn’t steal the parent’s unsecured weapons they can just go purchase when they are 18 and not much stopping them, even if they show signs of mental illness or unfitness. That reality cannot be denied.
I don't think they bought him a gun because he had issues. I've never had much interest in guns. But my parents bought each of my siblings guns when they were teenagers. It's a normal thing for a lot of families. I think even that is too far. At most, she may have committed a gun crime. I don't think it's fair to charge somebody with negligent homicide or reckless homicide when the person who committed the killings did so on their own, without encouragement from the other person, and without the other person's knowledge. I didn't hear all the evidence the jury did. But from what I read, I think they got it wrong. The mother is being convicted for being flippant on the day her kid did something very evil. And I get it. Maybe had she taken it seriously, she could have stopped it. But who believes their child is going to shoot up a school? We shouldn't criminalize that sort of error in judgment.
No disagreement on this. Strong 2nd Amendment advocate here, but to whom much is given, much is required. The Constitution protects our freedom and right to bear arms, but it doesn't come without responsibility. Greater responsibility.
