Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,287
    1,834
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Now for some real news. European Union overcomes the objections of Hungary and agrees to a $54 billion aid package for Ukraine. The article highlights some of the economic problems that Ukraine has faced since the invasion started. Ukraine has lost a third of its economic output to wartime damage and occupation of some of its major industries.

    Very courageous of Europe to continue supporting Ukraine. Unlike the cowardly republicans in Congress who do not even understand why they should support Ukraine.

    European Union overcomes threat of Hungary veto to seal $54 billion aid package for Ukraine

     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,419
    1,040
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    Yes thanks for educating us on Patriot missiles can hit moving targets.

    By the way, water is not wet.
     
  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,613
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Regarding the shoot down, Ukraine sends a strong message to its POW’s: don’t bother coming back.
     
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,613
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
     
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,287
    1,834
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    If Russia is doing so well at producing weapons, why are they desperately importing low quality weapons from North Korea? Maybe the quality of Russian weapons is not much better, and they feel they need to produce huge quantities to make up for the lack of quality. Sometimes you have to actually use your brain to understand what's really going on. Russia is obviously struggling to manufacture weapons that they can win the war with. Denying it childishly does nothing to change that fact.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,287
    1,834
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    You mean, the shootdown of the IL-76 that somehow only had five bodies (coincidentally the same number of a normal crew of the plane) delivered to the local morgue?

    Putin: "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

    Duggar's: "I always believe and adore you, Your Excellence!"

    Putin: "That was a rhetorical question, you toad!"

    Duggar's: "Ribbet!"
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  7. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

    10,720
    2,414
    3,303
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

    24,385
    2,502
    1,868
    Apr 3, 2007
    Imagine how much damage Ukraine could inflict on Russia's fleet if it actually had a navy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

    746
    239
    1,918
    Feb 24, 2008
    Joe Blogs uses stats released by Russia, so where is the propaganda coming from? Reverse propaganda?
    It’s more than likely worse ——-
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2024
  10. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

    746
    239
    1,918
    Feb 24, 2008
    Romanian Army Chief Warns Country Must Be Ready For Putin
    Romanian Army Chief Warns Country Must Be Ready For Putin
    Romania urgently needs to adopt a legal framework that would allow civilian volunteers to pursue military training as the country need to be better prepared in case Russia's war against Ukraine spreads, the NATO member's new army chief has told RFE/RL.
    "Yes, the population of Romania, like the entire population of the European Union, of Europe, must be concerned," General Gheorghita Vlad told RFE/RL's Romanian Service in an interview on February 1.
    "Personally, though not necessarily as a career soldier, I consider that the Russian Federation will not stop there [in Ukraine]. If it wins in Ukraine, its next main target will be Moldova. We'll see tensions in the Western Balkans as well. I'm more than convinced that [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin will escalate his policies in the immediate future."

     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,613
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Why would Putin need to invade Europe ? Europe is already busily involved in ruining itself.
     
    • Off-topic Off-topic x 1
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,664
    2,010
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    We’re still on that? That transport plane went down in Russia, well outside of the max effective range of any ground-based system operating in Ukraine. Unless we’re saying Ukrainian conventional fighters penetrated the vaunted Russian IADS (and then made it back again undetected), then that transport most likely went down due to a combination of mechanical failure and pilot error.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2024
    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,778
    11,870
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    Ukraine says Russia is refusing to turn over the bodies of plane crash victims - ABC News (go.com)

    A French military official told The Associated Press that the country’s military concluded that Ukrainian forces used a battery of Patriot surface-to-air missiles to shoot down the Il-76, firing from about 50 kilometers (about 30 miles) away.

    The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to divulge the intelligence findings, said the Ukrainian battery apparently managed to stay hidden while getting closer to the target and then switched on its radar “just long enough to hit them.” Another Western official also said the plane was downed by “a missile strike rather than any kind of mechanical failure,” and it’s almost certain the missile was fired from Ukrainian territory. The official said “it’s not yet clear” whether it was carrying Ukrainian POWs.

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told the state RIA Novosti news agency on Friday that the Kremlin hadn't received a Ukrainian request to hand over the bodies. Asked if Russia would be willing to hand them over, he later told reporters that the official investigation into the incident was continuing and it would be up to Russian law enforcement agencies to consider such a request.

    President Vladimir Putin said Wednesday that Russia wouldn’t only welcome but would “insist” on an international inquiry into the plane's downing that he described as a “crime” by Ukraine.
     
  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,664
    2,010
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    The numbers just don’t make any sense to me. I’ll stipulate that it’s possible Ukraine moved up Patriots that close quickly, took a shot, then quickly redeployed them, but it would have not have been wise. First, those things are deployed primarily around Kyiv, and they don’t have an infinite number of them, so they have to protect their vital parts. Second, under no circumstance should Ukraine have moved them any closer to the front than Kharkiv. Any closer and you start getting within Russian artillery range, and you can’t risk these assets that way. The distance between Kharkiv and where that plane went down is closer to 100km, not 50. And I already think that’s too close given what they are meant to protect. Third, assuming all of this is true, I think it’s grimly humorous that Russia would accuse Ukraine of a war crime, even if there were POWs on that transport (which I kind of doubt at the moment absent evidence). A military transport is a legitimate target of war, unquestionably. The Geneva Convention puts the onus on Russia for protecting POWs, including from inadvertent harm from their own country. You can’t, for instance, put POWs on a work detail within artillery range of the enemy and then cry foul if some of them are killed inadvertently. To pull off this story, Russia would have to demonstrate that they told Ukraine in advance when and where the transport would be flying and have given them the transponder code for the aircraft. Otherwise, “every” passenger aircraft that Russia puts in the air can just have a Ukrainian POW on it, and “every” shoot down can be a crime against humanity.
     
  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,778
    11,870
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    They seem to have a hunter killer patriot platform roving around. Same platform that took out the two radar planes and a flight of 3 su34's in December.
     
  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,664
    2,010
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Interesting. My instinct tells me that it would be something other than a Patriot, whatever is being said open source. I’m not an expert on friendly SAMs by any means, but having such a mobile variant would contradict some of my knowledge about the capabilities of that system. I’ll leave it there. Maybe something else is in play that we don’t know about yet.
     
  17. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

    2,585
    800
    2,078
    Nov 2, 2015
    I’ve mentioned it before and will again.

    AMRAAMs can be launched from the ground and have extended range. Total distance is a guess. Maybe Ukraine has secretly received some of these missiles?

    AMRAAM Missile.

    AMRAAM range - Google Search
    Aim-120 range is 57nm
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,664
    2,010
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    They would need more than just the weapons. A radar feed has to be coming from somewhere. Our aircraft that use those generally are getting targeting data from AWACS of one kind or another.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,778
    11,870
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    they have repurposed some Sams so maybe that is the ticket

    I can't find the other articles I read but it discussed Ukraine taking one of the german supplied units and dedicating it to being a Hutner killer unit to ambush russian jets that get too close. discussed how taking out russian radar sites to the north required the russian radar planes to slide north to be able to cover the horizon and once they got close enough, patriot was waiting to turn on, fire, and run.

    similar for the trio of su34's. Ukraine knew where their typical bombing runs were launching from and set up in the dark, waited on info, turned on, fired, and left.

    Ukrainian Patriot air defense systems took down 10 Russian aircraft says military expert (yahoo.com)

    Ukraine’s Patriot air defense systems have shot down 10 Russian aircraft, including three Su-34 fighter-bombers in a recent operation. Military expert and Ukrainian Armed Forces reserve officer Andriy Kramarov commented on the "seasonal migration" of the systems in an interview with Radio NV on Dec. 23. Although there is no official confirmation from the Ukrainian military, "Ukraine has Patriot systems, and they can appear anywhere out of nowhere,” Kramarov said.
    ...................
    Air Force spokesperson Yuriy Ihnat called the downing of the warplanes "a brilliantly planned operation to destroy the enemy on the periphery of our country."

    The three Russian Su-34 warplanes downed on Dec. 22 were planning to attack Ukraine with guided bombs, aviation expert Valeriy Romanenko said in an interview with Radio NV.

    "Most likely, it was really a Patriot, because we did receive another system from Germany, and our guys were already prepared for it," Romanenko said.
     
  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,287
    1,834
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Time to do the Two-Tank Shuffle. Kuwait will be donated M-84 tanks through Croatia to Ukraine, with upgrades performed in Croatia. Germany will allegedly then forward two dozen Panzer-87 tanks that were bought from Switzerland. Kuwait had 149 of these tanks.

    The M-84 is feared tank from the Gulf War that defeated many of Saddam's Russian tanks. It is an upgraded version of a Russian T-72 with better armor, a more powerful engine, and a better fire control system than the T-72. Presumably it will have better tank shells than Russia has. These were made by license in Croatia.

    The Fearsome Tanks That Fought Saddam Hussein May Soon Come for Vladimir Putin

     
    • Like Like x 1