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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I expect Russia to lie, about everything.
     
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  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I would like the "Czar" to give us an update on the status of the 10's of thousands of Ukranian kids his despotic army kidnapped and shipped to who knows where.
     
  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Oh, hell, even I remember his BS on that one, and it was over a year ago:

    “You mean whenever the U.S. rescued children from war zones in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, they were kidnapping them? You warmongers are just looking for an excuse to keep Russia out of its own territory and from managing its own population.”
     
  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine sends a strong message to its POW’s: don’t bother coming back.
     
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  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Rick Newman and the Rhodium Group claims that NOT supporting Ukraine would be a multi-trillion dollar mistake. Now, where have I heard that before?

    He says it would encourage China to blockade Taiwan, at a global cost of $2 trillion, or invade Taiwan, at a global cost of $10 trillion (and causing U.S. GDP to drop by 7%, or $1.6 trillion). Hmmm, that sounds bad. And it doesn't even begin to cover the $2.5 trillion increase in U.S. military spending due to the upcoming arms race with two (count 'em, TWO) superpowers. It would apparently be the worst economic disaster for the U.S. since the Great Depression.

    Good to know that republican imbeciles/traitors in Congress are holding up aid to Ukraine for relatively trivial reasons, as they roll the dice with causing the next Great Depression. I don't know if the Republican Party could survive creating that kind of disaster. "Vote for me--I caused you to stand in line for government soup!" The Democrats might split into the Liberal Democrats and the Green Democrats. Former republicans would just have to choose one of the two to join, if they wanted their vote to mean anything.

    Abandoning Ukraine could be a multitrillion-dollar mistake

     
  7. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Can we get an updated map, y'all? I'm feeling giddy about all this winning Ukraine has been doing with our aid. Surely, that map has changed drastically in the past few months. We know this, because Zelenskyy himself said he saw Russian units retreating many times. I can't find an updated map online, so I am hoping one of you kind gents will have an updated map that shows all of Ukraine's great gains the past 12 months.
     
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  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Now Ukraine is condemning Russian for putting its POW’s on the plane it shot down.
     
  9. slayerxing

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    You’re right. Ukraine didn’t win enough recently fighting supposedly the 2nd or 3rd best military on the planet and a country with 5 times the population. Best to just let them burn. Great foreign policy there champ. Honestly we should just let them March to the Atlantic while we turtle behind walls over in North America. Definitely can’t see any downside…
     
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  10. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, I’d like to know precisely what you suggest? Cut off aid and let Russia have it?
     
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  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine is not going to gain much ground until they have nearly equal numbers of troops (or greater) on the ground as Russia does, or Ukraine can take out weapons production factories with drones or F-16's. That is going to take a while, even at the 3:1 or 4:1 (Russian: Ukrainian) casualty ratios that have been estimated by western sources. The average experience and training levels of Russian soldiers has gone down with the high numbers of long-term Russian soldiers put out of commission, so that is making it easier for Ukraine. But it is still going to take a long time. The fact that Ukraine is not losing much ground to Russia, while fielding a much smaller army, is very impressive.

    So update your brain, not your map. This is not yet a competition for yardage, and it won't be until the logistics competition (weapons and troops) gets resolved. And take some Xanax for your giddiness--that may help.
     
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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Two electrical substations catch fire after explosions in Vladivostok (msn.com)

    In the Russian city of Vladivostok, a fire broke out at two substations after explosions, leaving hundreds of buildings without power, according to the ASTRA Telegram channel.

    According to local residents, substations on Novozhilova Street and Bukhta Tikhaya are on fire. The reasons are currently unknown. Several buildings are without electricity.
     
  13. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    The waste of life is disturbing. Russia places no value on the lives of these waves of men they keep throwing at it
     
  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    As I’ve said many times on here, if Ukraine is not primarily concerned with recapturing ground, then we should not be either. They need to continuously maneuver for positional advantage in order to maximize Russian casualties. Sometimes that means taking ground, sometimes it means giving ground, and sometimes it means making limited attacks just to draw Russia into counterattacks. In the present conditions, Ukraine does not have the ability to defeat Russia by physically ejecting them from all of its territory. It has to defeat by Russia by eroding its will.
     
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  15. slayerxing

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    I feel like you’ve posted this 50 times in the past year in response to the same isolationist bull shit.
     
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  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    (sighs) Yeah, I know. I’m screaming into the void. Personal flaw. In my opinion, the problem is not some kind of neo-isolationism. Some people on this site and all the way up to Congress are prioritizing politics over what is good for the U.S. and the current world order. Actually, I think if Trump were still President (glad he isn’t and won’t be) then he would be even more hawkish on Ukraine and his supporters now acting like they think Russia should just have it would be Ukraine’s loudest supporters. Why? Because generally speaking no one wants a loss on their watch … but they’re perfectly okay with the opposition having a loss on theirs. And here we are. Watch the same people throwing up obstacles to aiding Ukraine scream the loudest that Biden lost Ukraine and wasted all of the aid we’ve sent them so far. I’m no political ally of this President, but I recognize what’s good for the country and what isn’t. You know, before and during WWII, Republicans didn’t like Roosevelt, detested his domestic agenda, but when it came to uniting against a real enemy they got on board with his policies in the interest of the country, even when there was a short-term political cost.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2024
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  17. okeechobee

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    I’m thinking about something radical, like a peace treaty.
     
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  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia is struggling to make any coordinated offensive maneuvers, because drones attack as soon as large numbers of Russian soldiers get together to start anything. (A battalion consists of about 1,000 troops.) Seems like some artillery shells would be helpful in these situations.

    Russia is struggling to breach Ukraine's defenses because its troops keep getting blown up by drones when they gather in groups: ISW

     
  19. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Even if what you’re posting here is a true representation of what’s happening in Ukraine currently, that is not how it’s being sold (or told) to the American public. The American public are being told the billions in aid are for Ukrainians to push Russia off their territory and restore the pre-2014 borders. Indeed, to “depose Vladimir Putin,” which implies further action after the pre-2014 borders are reestablished.

    If the American people were being told we’re funding a pissing match in Ukraine, with the hopes Russia (who have survived far more treacherous bloodbaths in their time) are going to give up eventually, it would have almost zero support. Commendable of you to lift the veil off of what’s happening, but it doesn’t help your position stateside. In order to support your soirée in Ukraine, I have to be okay with the American taxpayers being blatantly lied to and my allegiance lies with the American people, not Zelenskyy’s corrupt government.
     
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  20. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    On what terms? The Ukrainians will probably take a peace treaty today, end all of the fighting, allow the Russians to withdraw in good order. I’ll bet we can throw in some real sweeteners about no Russian reparations, no war crimes, and Ukraine will criminalize its, uh, Nazi party. Do we have a framework?
     
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