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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Oh no we might live in the world we already live in
     
  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The U.S. doesn’t need anyone’s help.

    It can ensure the destruction of Ukraine all by itself.
     
  3. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    I have always believed that Ukraine is fighting an uphill battle - at least in the East. I've been skeptical of the reporting from both sides, and I'm also not one of those who is cheering for Russia to become a failed state. Definitely seems bleak for Ukraine if what she said is accurate given she's saying that it's basically going to be up to the United States alone. I don't know if that's a fair assessment or not. I haven't vetted this page, but it at least suggests that European countries are stepping up.

    Ukraine Support Tracker - A Database of Military, Financial and Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine

    In the period between August and October 2023 the amount of newly committed aid dropped sharply, with the value of new packages totaling just EUR 2.11 billion –the lowest amount since January 2022. The main remaining group of active donors are individual European countries, such as Croatia, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland, as well as NATO countries like Canada and the United Kingdom. Moreover, Ukraine can rely on the large previously pledged multi-year programs.  

    When focusing on committed military aid, the EU countries continue to catch up, and now surpassed the U.S. In particular Germany and the Nordic countries (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland) earmarked significant new assistance in the past months. Of the total 25 billion in heavy weapon commitments (Jan. 2022 -–Oct. 2023), the US accounts for 43 percent of the total value, while all EU countries and institutions together account for 47 percent.

    The U.S. remain the largest military donor, with total commitments of EUR 44 billion. But Germany is catching up fast, with total military commitments now exceeding EUR 17 billion.
     
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Nuanced perspectives such as your are in severely short supply on this board.

    I believe it is accurate to surmise that, never mind the limited resources the US can bring to bear, the entire West is helpless in thwarting Russia from its primary aim of demilitarizing the Western proxy which is Ukraine.
     
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  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think that Biden needs to make the case that if the republicans do not want to send cash to Ukraine, then fine, we won't send cash. (We haven't sent that much cash anyway.) We only send weapons and ammunition from now on. Then he should say that Ronald Reagan, if he were alive today, would regard anyone unwilling to support an ally invaded by Russia, a.k.a. the Evil Empire, to be a traitor to the United States. Young morons like MTG, Boebert, and Gaetz might not have much regard for Reagan, but many of the people who voted for them certainly do. If they respond by trashing Reagan, then they're toast in their next election.
     
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  6. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Bug Tussle NC
    She briefly mentions support from Europeans and Japan.
     
  7. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    Eh, I dunno. Republicans seem statistically split about whether Reagan or Trump was the better president.

    Republicans view Reagan, Trump as best recent presidents
     
  8. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    NB: Russia =/= USSR.

    NB 2: 1980's =/= 21st century.

    NB 3: Biden won't go for that, unless there's a liquidation provision to monetize his returns. ;)

    What, you think that clown actually believes in America? That he does anything for American interests rather than his own? LMAO!

    :monkey:
     
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    No one wants Russia to become a failed state as a primary goal. Those that want Russia to become a failed state want it because it is the fastest way to end the war with Russia losing. Russia is free to leave Ukraine at any time. They could do it tomorrow if they wanted. Justice would not be served if Russia were allowed to keep even part of Ukraine.

    The U.S. could certainly bring more resources to bear on the problem. While U.S. resources are not unlimited, we could send over more tanks, and we could ramp up production of artillery shells, HIMARS systems, and whatever else they needed. No, the West is not "helpless". Once the traitors in Congress are silenced (as long as it's done soon), Ukraine will be fine.

    I think you are the only one that's helpless here.
     
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  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. But for the older constituents, saying something insulting to Reagan will cost you half your votes, and no candidate can be re-elected by turning away half of the people that voted for them in the previous election, especially when their opponent (and the news media) questions whether they are a traitor or not.
     
  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    *sighs* Biden, Blinken and Austin disagreed with you during the early stages of the war. And it their primary concern had been the welfare of Ukraine, they wouldn’t have scuttled early negotiations. But because they did, Ukraine is in a MUCH worse stop now than back then.
     
  12. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    It is likely that twice as many Palestinian civilians have been, in weeks of fighting, than civilians have died in the nearly two years of fighting in Ukraine.

    But it’s the Russians who are genocidal.
     
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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    That's because Gaza is essentially a city, and Ukraine is not. It is also because only one half of the combatants in Gaza are wearing uniforms, and the other half is wearing street clothes and fighting as partisans (Hamas is a terrorist organization). Even with minimal troops located in Kiev, Russia still attacks it repeatedly with missiles and drones, and kills many civilians. Russia also targets electricity generators during winter to try to freeze the local population to death. Yes, Russia is genocidal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2023
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  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia's economy continues to overheat, with rising interest rates. A recession is 70% likely in the next six months. It is so obvious that even Goldman Sachs can see it, and they never see anything coming. About 85% of businesses have reported staff shortages due to the war.

    Russia’s economy is overheating

     
  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Germany to send $400 million worth of artillery shells to Ukraine.

    Germany orders artillery shells for Ukraine for over $400 million

     
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  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Fighting for their lives but - and this is key - are not in our fold while doing it.

    And my contention on civilian casualties stands and I haven’t seen it much disputed in Western media. It’s why our top brass are strong arming Israel to rein it in.
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    You really don't get it, do you?

    Hamas is not only fighting for their lives, but fighting for their "right" to eradicate another entire population of people and take over their land. Hamas is not "in our fold" because they are homicidal terrorists. It's not that hard to understand. Ukraine "is in our fold" because they did nothing to start this war with Russia, other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and be more financially successful than Russia. Ukraine is not a group of homicidal terrorists, BTW; they were a peaceful nation until Russia invaded. They were just the most attractive target for Russia to continue their empire building. You know all this, but you are willfully blinded by your hatred of the United States and your admiration of large dictatorial governments.
     
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  19. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The military has a variety of ways to deal with malcontents. A corporation will just fire you if you badmouth them on social media. The military can reassign you to places you don't want to go, or they can provide a less-than-honorable discharge that might affect your ability to get your next job. I'm sure there are other things that they can do as well. These people are clearly not very smart. I hope they enjoy their 15 minutes of "fame."

    And the truth is, if you are any good at what you do in the military, promotions are available, and they come with--get this--higher pay. If you are a malcontent, you probably aren't very good at what you do.

    I also do not understand the claim that today's military is "fighting endless wars". The U.S. has not been at war since it got out of Afghanistan. U.S. troops peaked in Afghanistan in 2011 with 98k out of about 640k in the Army and Marines (about 15% of the U.S. ground forces were in theater). That was 12 years ago. I'm guessing way before any of these whiners signed up. GWB was the last president who can be said to have presided over "neocon warmongers". He left office in January, 2009. Almost 15 years ago.
     
  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The negotiations were for Ukraine's enslavement. Ukraine decided they did not want to be enslaved, and that is their choice. Biden did not "scuttle negotiations". That is a lie told by jack*sses that don't know any better (or that do know better, but it doesn't fit the narrative they want to mislead people with). Since February of 2023, Zelenskyy and Ukraine have been totally free to surrender at any time and become Russian slaves. There is NOTHING that the U.S. could do to stop Ukraine from surrendering. All the U.S. did was offer weapons and advice to Ukraine. Ukraine was free to refuse those weapons and advice and continue with any surrender plans they might have had. Ukraine chose to continue fighting.
     
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