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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    DeLand
    Careful I got edited for something very similar.
     
  2. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    totally wrong. Isreal pulled out of Gaza, let the Palestinians have it. The Pal's elected Hamas as their leaders; and proceded to thank Israel for its generosity, by...invading it. So unless you're talking about Hamas as the "right wing nationalist party with expansionist aims"... dead wrong.

    ...and despite the public outcry from the whacked out Left in support of the Terrorists attackers...we are supporting Israel there.

    What's more, Israel has long been our ally, going back to it's inception post WW II, and more so in the wake of the '67 war.

    Meanwhile, Ukraine has stumbled into a quasi unofficial alliance, this century. You want inconsistency? Try this on for size--W. tried to get Ukraine into NATO back in '08. I wonder how long it would take for the tables to turn, if W. came out and called for the additional support for Ukraine? LOL! I bet that would trigger a massive collapse in support for Ukraine.

    TBL: Israel is a historic ally; Ukraine is a troll ally (who apparently has some seriously damning information on a lot of former/Ex-peace mongers in DC).

    Can't help but wonder....how did uber genius, super prescient, George W. Bush, see this grand opportunity some 13 years before?

    Brilliant!
     
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  3. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    DeLand
    One thing you an I possibly agree on is the statement that Jordan is a Palestinian state. Almost 80 percent of Jordan is Palestinian, but their king is not. On another site I was told that pointing this out was the worst type of racism. I asked why no one could but everyone agreed.
     
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  4. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Damn it...there you go making sense again.

    ...pour me another...
     
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  5. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Now you too?

    Y'all are going to get me shitfaced, with all this sense coming from 2 of my historic adversaries on here...
     
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  6. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Well we can agree to disagree about Gaza. The Israelis have been pushing settlers into the West Bank, which everyone except Israel thinks is either illegal, wrong and/or problematic, yet they can do it. Seems pretty expansionist to me. We refuse to condition any aid to them or even sanction them, they have a blank check to violate what ever international law or agreement they wish.
     
  7. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think you're absolutely right about Russia here. Primitive, out gunned... simply not a real threat at all.

    China is a totally different deal. Sneaky, clever, malicious, scary capable. Because they don't fight you straight up. They infiltrate your institutions, and get you to screw yourself.

    They're like us, but doing it to us. And much better than we usually do it to our targets.

    They're a big flippn concern...
     
  8. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah...agreed....we definitely disagree on da strip.
     
  9. AndyGator

    AndyGator VIP Member

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    The list of Russian puppets is growing on this thread. :confused:
     
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  10. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    You needn't worry.

    They're still substantially outnumbered by the Chinese puppets, by like 9:1.
     
  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Keyboard Warriors need to nut up!
     
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  12. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    In real news about the Ukraine War, Georgia (the country, not the state) is concerned about Russia building a naval base in the occupied part of Georgia (not too far from unoccupied Georgia). They are worried about being dragged into the Ukraine War. If Georgia ever wanted to remove Russia from the occupied territories in Georgia, now would be a pretty good time for a counter-attack. Russia's armies are stretched to the limit, and it would open a second front against an army that can barely handle the first front. Under ideal circumstances, they would be able to count on getting military aid from the U.S. Not sure what they can count on with the bozos in Congress today.

    Again, this just hammers home the point that Russia conquers, then expands its military footprint. Some of the mentally-challenged on this thread seem to prefer to wait until Russia starts building bases on America's doorstep. "Ooh, we need to save a few dollars! Russia is none of my business until I can't possibly ignore it any longer! Until they actually point a gun at my head. Then I will be hopping mad, even though it will probably be too late by then."

    Another country Russia invaded is worried a new naval base is going to drag it into the Ukraine war

     
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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Don't forget that Germany was a fairly weak military power when it invaded Poland. Most military experts will tell you that England and France could have easily defeated Germany in 1939 and early 1940. Not so later in 1940 and 1941. Germany did not have enough tanks, trucks, and planes to fight France and England at the same time. France and England each hoped to avoid a fighting war, so they each declared war on Germany in 1939, and then . . . did nothing. That began the period known as "The Phony War". "Peace in our Time" did not last: Germany invaded France on May 10, 1940.

    Russia's incompetence was their undoing en route to Kiev. They will not be so incompetent the next time around. Experience is a very good teacher.

    Ukraine was not a third rate military. They had the second largest military in Europe (behind Russia). Not the latest or greatest equipment, of course. But they had experience from the 2014 fight with Russia, and an understanding that it could happen again. They had a relatively prosperous country (one of the reasons speculated for the invasion was that Russia was jealous of having a former vassal nation being more successful than they were), and they produced a lot of their own equipment (based on Soviet designs). So Ukraine's army is not top tier necessarily, but definitely second tier, and fairly large. Once they started using western hardware, they became more successful. They were clearly very resourceful. I don't think any of the militaries in southern Europe would want any part of a fight (theoretically speaking) with Ukraine's military after what they've demonstrated against Russia.

    Russia and China are not looking to take over the world any time soon. It may take decades for them to develop their militaries, and steal natural resources from the countries they invade before they can make any move against the world powers. But if they are allowed to take over these countries, they will have the resources they need to build into the kind of country that could take on the U.S. and defeat us. If we don't defeat ourselves or destroy the planet before then. Supporting Ukraine militarily is essentially a no-brainer when you look at from that perspective. Most Americans are not capable of taking a long-term view, however. We need instant gratification.
     
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  14. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    Here is a thought. Do we build up our adversaries to make them seem like a threat? The Germans and the Japanese were in World War Two but Russia and the China now are severely flawed governments. China is going to have a huge correction. There entire real estate market is going to crash. It may be the biggest bubble since the tulips.
     
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    China set to collapse in 2014 … 2019 … 2021 … 2024 …
     
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  16. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Hope your wrong. That would present quite a dilemma.

    If China pops...thst won't exactly inure to our benefit. More likely than not, that would send us into our own brutal crash. That's why we've been so reluctantly tolerant of one another.

    If that goes...say hello to WW III.
     
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  17. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    They are gonna pop. It will be interesting to see how much or little it impacts us.
     
  18. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Just another reason to continue to decouple.
     
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  19. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine made $28 billion from farming exports in 2021, and $112 billion from mineral exports in 2018. So mining is about 4X bigger on an annual income basis. Which you would expect, since Ukraine is processing some of the metals that they mine into steels, which are value-added products (compared to Australia, which allows China to haul off raw iron ore for processing in Malaysia and other places).
     
  20. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Armenia ready to say nyet to Russia

    Russia Risks Losing an Ally to Ukraine (msn.com)

    On Monday, Armenian Foreign Affairs Minister Ararat Mirzoyan met with Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba in Brussels, Belgium, where they purportedly discussed the "advancement" of their relationship.

    "My Armenian counterpart Ararat Mirzoyan and I met to discuss the advancement of Ukraine-Armenia dialogue for the benefit of our peoples," Kuleba said in a statement accompanied by a photo of the diplomats smiling while standing next to each other.

    .....................
    Mirzoyan and Kuleba were in Brussels to attend a European Union (EU) Eastern Partnership Ministerial meeting, where leaders discussed efforts for Ukraine and neighbor Moldova to join the EU, something that Putin's government has strongly opposed.

    During the meeting, Mirzoyan said that his government "warmly welcomes the European Commission's decision to recommend the European Council to open accession talks with Moldova and Ukraine."
     
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