Texas towns make it illegal to use roads to travel out of state for an abortion.

The women and children dying Gaza are not dying because they're "inconvenient," they're dying because Hamas poses an existential threat to Israeli Jews and Hamas is hiding behind women and children.

 

What if you knew for certain the person would be healthy and awake in 9 months if you just don't do anything?

Pulling someone off life support is nowhere close to the same thing as going out of your way to kill an unborn child. If nature runs its course, the child is born, if nature runs its course with the person on life support, the person dies. Life support is there to prevent natural death, it is extreme medical measures to preserve life. Pregnancy enables the natural creation of life while abortion intervenes to kill it.

 

One, you don't know for certain a fetus will ever be healthy. Same way, you don't know for certain a person on life support won't live long enough for a medical miracle to happen and a cure be found. And while it's not a perfect analogue, we don't consider the person with no brain activity on full life support to be a human life, and allow the person with power of attorney to end it. Why should we not extend the same to the pregnant woman? Especially in cases like the OP, where chances of baby survival is minimal, and chances of problems to the woman are very high.

And while I don't like abortion, I also don't think we should force a woman to care for a life against her will. Just how we shouldn't force anyone to keep someone on life support, we shouldn't force a woman to remain pregnant if she doesn't wish it. She should have autonomy over her own body. And while the chances of the fetus become a viable life is much higher than someone on life support ever living off life support is higher, the same argument remains. You just don't know if the fetus is guaranteed to be viable, and you just don't know if a miracle cure will be found tomorrow.

 

BTW, this has happened in Florida as well

To protect a mother: Will abortion exceptions survive a post-Roe world?

What some of you don’t understand is that medical professionals are leaving Florida, leaving Texas, and leaving other states with these draconian laws. They do not want to practice medicine under these conditions and this is particularly acute in rural areas. I would hate for your wife, sister, daughter to need medical help with a complicated pregnancy and there be no one to treat them.

 

You don't know for certain anyone will be healthy, that doesn't give you the right to kill them.

This is so stupid.

 

Why don't you like abortion?

 

Yeah, I don’t get it either. I mean, if it’s just a clump of cells …

 

Then people should never be allowed to get off life support. Because nobody can predict the future. And who knows. Maybe you pull the plug and two months later, we find a miracle cure that could have saved the life! Again, not a perfect analogue, but the choice isn't ours to make in either case. And we can't let what might or might not happen be why we force others into a choice they don't want to make.

The reason I don't like abortion is I prefer to choose the side of life. And if a woman with a newborn came up to me and said she was leaving on a plane tomorrow to chase her dreams, and had no room for a baby, and said either I take the child or she kills it, no brainer, I take the child. But rewind time 8 months, and the same woman says she's leaving on a plane tomorrow to follow her dreams, has no room for the child, and is going to the clinic to end her pregnancy, what right do I have to stop her? I can't save the fetus and nurture it. That's medically impossible. And I'm assuming she's a grown woman. Why should I be able to force her to not enter the abortion clinic?

And would it change things if the woman said she was raped, never had any intention of ever being a mother, and now, because actions out of her control, if she doesn't get an abortion, she may be shut out of following her dreams? Does this make the fetus any less innocent? No. But it's certainly not fair for any woman to be put in this position. At the same time, what right do we have to know the circumstances of the pregnancy? Zero. It shouldn't make a difference.

If this woman, a few weeks pregnant, comes up to me heading for an abortion clinic, I might try and discuss other options. But it's not my place, nor my right to stop her from entering and having the procedure. No woman should be forced to carry to term, and we have no idea the reasons behind the decision. Nor should we have the right to ask.

Doesn't mean I'm happy about the decision. Just believe a law isn't the right answer, especially given the practical unintended consequences of abortion laws. When has a law actually stopped supply from meeting demand? Did Prohibition stop alcohol from flowing? Have drug laws stopped illicit drugs? Has our border laws stopped undocumented immigration? No, no, and no. Abortion laws don't stop abortions either. They only drive them to "back alley" places where the number of abortions don't drop, but maternal deaths and complications that lead to women unable to become pregnant again rise. And who wants to see maternal complications and deaths go up?

And speaking of maternal complications, that's the most likely outcome with the woman in the OP. No guarantees, but in more cases than not, in these cases, the child doesn't live, and the mother's life is in serious danger. It shouldn't be anyone's call to tell this woman what she can and cannot do with her own life. It should be between her, her doctor(s), and any loved ones she wishes to include in the decision. I have no expertise or experience to add anything more to the conversation, but those, on this forum, who have been in a similar situation have added to the discussion, and they have spoken from a place of experience. And they would advocate termination in this case.

 

The stupid part is that some people don't understand the difference between an embryo, a fetus and a child/baby. They incorrectly use terms like "baby" and "child" for every stage of fetal development and then get angry or frustrated when people with a better understanding of the science disagree with them.

I showed you a photo before, but that didn't help. Perhaps a more base explanation is in order. When I go into IHOP and order a couple of eggs over easy, I am not responsible for the death of two chickens, even if both eggs happened to be fertilized.

Perhaps a little more basic....until the little sucker pops its head out, it ain't a baby.

 

That's one way to frame it. Fetuses pose an existential threat to women. They are now free to abort them at will. Yay!

 

Correct. It is getting harder and harder for women to find a obgyn in Florida as they are leaving the state. Anyone who cares about a female in their life should be legit concerned about access to proper medical care

 

Absolute nonsense.

Pregnancy is natural. Life support is intervening medical support to prevent death that costs tons of money and resources.

 

You (should) have a right to stop her for the same reason that you have a right to stop a mother from taking her son or daughter to be butchered just because they are no longer wanted.

You can't nurture it in the womb, but the mother typically can. And she doesn't get to just end that life simply because it's an inconvenience. If the mother would likely die, that's different. But if she just doesn't want to carry it anymore... She knew the risks when she had sex.

 

I hope that if you have any children, they never read that.

 

Show me where I incorrectly used terms like "baby" or "child" in this thread.

Also, I don't think you or most pro-abortion advocates actually care about precise language here, you just don't like anything that humanizes a fetus.

 

If I have children, they'd have no reason to care.

 

They posed an "existential threat to their mother" in the womb?

That's a pretty terrible thing to say isn't it?

 

Nope. It's a reality of life. Not their fault.

 

I know this is an abortion thread, but holy shit, this went really dark really fast.

 

And if the woman was raped and never wanted to have children? Is there a risk just by being a woman of birthing age and she has no choice but to carry to term of there is no health risk? The fetus isn't any less innocent.