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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    I should probably know these answers, but I don't. Are the valuable minerals located in specific areas of Ukraine (e.g., the East, North, etc.) or are they more widely distributed? Also, if Ukraine still has access or partial access to the minerals, are they able to mine and sell them to fund their defense or is this just not logistically possible?
     
  2. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    DeLand
    I am skeptical of all these mineral claims. Wasn’t Afghanistan supposed to have trillions in minerals too? Then there is the asteroid worth quintillions. Tell me how much profit will there be once you have dug up and processed them not how many theoretical trillions are in the ground.
     
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  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I believe they are mostly in the southeast. Melitopol has one of the world's largest steel factories. Russia cannot start mining them because it is in a war zone and within range of much of Ukraine's weapons. Mining equipment is also fairly expensive and difficult to replace on short notice.
     
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  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    We are enabling a right-wing nationalist government in its expansionist aims in Gaza (to a much more destructive and deadlier effect in fact), yet we are fighting the 'good fight' against a right-wing nationalist government's expansionists aims in Ukraine, there is no consistency here. Just the actions of a nation intent on preserving its dominance and demonstrating that if you are on our team and have strategic value, you get to annex your neighbors (especially if they are brown or not Christian enough).
     
  5. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    If you consider opium minerals, Afghanistan was full of lucrative minerals
     
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  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Afghanistan does have a lot of wealth in minerals. However, mining is much more difficult in mountainous terrain. Afghanistan is also politically unstable, so western companies do not want to work there. Bolivia has a lot of minerals (lithium in particular) as well, but no one wants to bring heavy equipment to the upper reaches of the Andes mountains. Mining an asteroid is even more challenging.

    Ukraine was mining their minerals. The terrain in Ukraine is not very challenging. That's why they have a large steel factory in Melitopol.
     
  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I would say that Russia is not likely to be defeated militarily, but it could happen a number of ways. What if the F-16's are able to blow up Russia's weapons factories and oil refineries? What if Russia runs out of mines (the main thing that has been slowing down Ukraine) because they had a limited supply left over from the cold war?

    I would suggest that the main thing that could lead to Russia's defeat is an economic collapse. And they aren't that far from one right now, with inflation at 7.5%. Their GDP and economic output are high right now, because they are borrowing & printing money as fast as they can to feed their war machine. If their refineries are blown up, their main source of income stops, and their economy grinds to a halt. And their tanks, trucks, and other vehicles grind to a halt as well.

    There are clearly principles at stake here. Does one country have a right to invade a neighbor and enslave them and take their natural resources, just because they have a large military? Is freedom a human right?
     
  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    When has a sanction regime ever resulted in a country a) getting anywhere near an economic collapse that destabilizes their politics and b) that resulted in a regime change more favorable to outside interests imposing the sanction regime? Its exceedingly easy for the Russian government to convince their people their economic woes are because of the West, and they don't even have to lie to do that. Ditto Cuba, or Venezuela, Iran, the list goes on ... the siege mentality benefits those governments and they can get way more sacrifice from their people than in normal conditions.

    Yes, a country has that right, as long as they are in our fold, like Israel. You can do genocide, ethnic cleansing, break international law, take land, arm settlers, defy the UN, kill tens of thousands of civilians as long as you are in our corner. We make up the principles as it suits us. Just like these supposed bad guys we are fighting. We are just another bad guy doing bad guy things. No one even believes this "preserving Western democracy" shit anymore (especially us), its just naked self interest at this point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2023
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The comparison of Putin and Hitler is a valid and accurate one. Both were dangerous dictators intent on global domination that built their armies and invaded their neighbors for conquest. They were both building an empire, well beyond the age that building empires was considered acceptable. I did not compare the Hamas terrorists to Hitler because the comparison is not valid. I am not using Hitler because everyone hates him and he is considered evil. He's just done some of the same things that Putin has done.

    Can you quote anything I incorrectly said about an action by Russia equaling Soviet era communist expansion that was not accurate?

    It seems like you are offended by the truth, and need to disparage anyone that tells the truth when it disagrees with your internal "feelings", regardless of how much evidence that they have. Trying thinking for a change.

    BTW, your knowledge base seems to be whatever Fox News and the Donald tell you to think.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Let’s compare the US and Russia.

    One country has 900 military bases, installations and garrisons in 80 countries around the world.

    The other country is Russia.
     
  11. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    So many words....so little communicated.

    That's your jam bro!
     
  12. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Bug Tussle NC
    As I was walking in NYC with my son over Thanksgiving a neighborhood character named Chewy (sp?) was following a guy down the street pointing and spouting gibberish loudly. The guy being followed acted as if Chewy didn’t even exist. eAs I started to turn and see what the heck was causing him to speak such excited utterances matter
    my son said “DNE Dad, DNE - Do Not Engage”

    That concludes the parable of poor village idiot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2023
  13. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    You're actually making sense today. Ima need a drink to remedy this situation.
     
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  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Of course it's naked self-interest! Once one of these countries starts taking over the world (as in, when a small war becomes a regional war, and the regional war becomes a world war), who is going to be expected to put a stop to it? Who has to invest such a huge amount of money towards maintaining the peace worldwide? Do you have ANY idea how fast the world would resort to countries killing each other if we didn't act as the world's police? And guess what, if we didn't invest in the military, we would be one of the first targets.

    I don't know why you keep harping on Israel. They are a small country, and they just went through their version of 9-11. Was the United States angry and even a little vengeful after 9-11? You bet your ass we were. The difference was that the enemy was not living in New Jersey, parading kidnapped women and children from New York through the streets a few miles away from the attack site. Does that sound upsetting to you?

    The U.S. doesn't necessarily care about "preserving democracy" (other than our own). We would certainly prefer to see democracy than not see it, because communist governments and dictatorships tend to use violence and/or intimidation to get what they want. (We certainly accept peaceful monarchies around the world.) We are not supporting Ukraine to "preserve democracy". We are supporting Ukraine to preserve Ukraine's independence, and to limit the expansionism of a very dangerous country (Russia). We do not want Russia to profit from Ukraine's wealth, because a lot of that profit will go into Russia's military and defense industries, making them even more dangerous. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?
     
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  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe you just don't understand what I'm saying. I will try to speak . . . s l o w e r . . . with you.
     
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  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m leaving this here if only because I’ve been waiting nearly two years for it …

    “I would say that Russia is not likely to be defeated militarily …”.

    If only the inbreds in our State Department had been this sagacious.
     
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  17. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    What does 'taking over the world' even mean? Is this something serious smart people actually contemplate? Russia isnt exactly rolling over a third rate military with some Western military aid. There is nothing about China or Russia that makes me think their world take over is imminent or even possible. We couldnt control Afghanistan beyond Kabul ourselves. All we have is airpower and money, which can bully people but can hardly occupy a country determined to resist.
     
  18. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    lot of Ukranian blood spilled due to delays by the Biden admin and Germany
     
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  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    it isn't just minerals. Ukranian farmlands are very productive, or at least they were
     
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  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Slight correction: Russia is methodically rolling over the second largest military in Europe and hundreds of thousands of troops and $100 billion from the U.S. alone.
     
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