DeSantis vs Newsome

No, you really don't. You just didn't like my answer, so you skipped right over it. A librarian deciding whether to make a book available or not based upon their professional expertise is not the same thing as a book ban.

I don't know, I haven't read it. Have you? You seem very interested in this book.

 

No wonder so many folks are worried about AI.

 

The Son of Mr. Peppermint sez ban this!

 

I don't care what you believe. The fact that none of us were talking about this four or five years ago when locals were making the decisions amply proves exactly what the issue is.

That's exactly why they passed the legislation. Not specifically for Catch in the Rye, but certainly to empower the ideologues who were already out there trying to ban books left and right. We saw this happening throughout 2022. Yet, in 2023, instead of putting more safeguards in place to prevent books from being unnecessarily banned, they passed legislation that empowered the censors to ban MORE books. They saw what was happening and gave them tools to do more of it.

Remember all the hoopla about school districts removing books about MLK, Roberto Clemente, Maya Rudolph, etc. from 10-12 months ago? Not long after that, DeSantis and the Legislature passed a statute that made it easier to ban books without putting safeguards in place to prevent indiscriminate banning of important novels. Now, we have Forrest Gump being banned in parts of Florida. Actions speak louder than words.

 

I'm sorry, when would it be a good time to talk about it? Last I checked most people generally don't follow their local school boards particularly closely.

What is your evidence of this? Why are you attributing the worst motives for DeSantis when there's a genuinely good policy rationale here? I think we all know the answer to that.

That is tone deaf at worst, doubling down on popular policy empowering parents at best.

The ideal is not quite what we have with DeSantis, but certainly not what we had before DeSantis. It's somewhere in between.

 

What you're saying is when local governments were making the decisions, most people didn't care? Yes, thank you.

My evidence is they watched this happen for a year and did nothing to rein in the abuses and everything to empower the abusers.

Except it isn't popular policy. Book banning is quite unpopular. And no, it wasn't "tone deaf at worst." It was quite clear what their goal was, and they're succeeding.

 

No, when most people didn't notice most people didn't care. Then people started to notice and they cared.

Specifically the abusers or the parents in Florida? I don't see any evidence of how this proves specific empowerment of abusers rather than parents in general. Some people abuse the system, the same can be said for literally any policy.

 

Just guessing but I have to assume that there were some professionals with some level of understanding of appropriate material for different age groups involved in suggesting which books might not belong in schools. Hell, there might have been a group of several such learned folks contributing to the list. I’m not sure that librarians are the only folks with credentials to make such decisions.

All or most, but at least some, of you did what I and friends of mine did in school. Once a book with with salacious or otherwise taboo material was known about it made the rounds so all could enjoy the unusual material. In my case it was a book of morgue and crime scene photos in the junior college library. Not sexually oriented, but probably didn’t belong in the middle school library. Someone back then decided it was okay for 18 year olds but not for 8 year olds. I think they made the correct call. Have to assume they had credentials for making such a decision.

 

And by half-truths, you mean the way Gov Nuisance tried to use his own figures for those exiting California?

 

The American Library Association awarded the Alex Award to Gender Queer.

For those who don't know, the Alex Awards are given to ten books every year that are written for young adults with a special appeal "young adults," ages 12 through 18.

Nothing to see here folks. Just trust the school boards and the librarians, they know what's best for your kids.

 

Which elementary schools was that removed from ... let's hear some names?

Meanwhile, you are ignoring that book about MLK and Rosa Parks, for example -- books that actually were in age-appropriate schools -- are banned because learning about history makes little white kids feel bad ...

 

But the state has always had education guidelines which includes books which must be available and books which are not permitted. Regardless, if a book is not available in the library, it’s hardly banned. I’m not really sure where you got your definition from. I’m going to assume you just made it up here.

I guess it boils down to a simple premise. Do you want some unelected, unknown, unaccountable person to decide what books your children should have access to, or do you want to use the power of the ballot box and vote in people to provide the education to your child with accountability?

what would you call it If the librarian determined they did not want to have a particular book in the library because it didn’t meet there moral standard? Is that also a book ban?

 

Not the question I asked.

The point I'm trying to drive at is "do you guys think this book should be offered in elementary school libraries for elementary school children?" It's a simple yes or no question.

 

wait a minute, let me see if I understand what you’re now suggesting. You’re saying that this particular book wasn’t available in any school? If that is your argument, then how the heck can you claim it was banned? If it wasn’t in the school in the first place, wasn’t it already banned?

 

Simple question ... was that book even in elementary school libraries? It's a yes or no question, just answer it.

 

He's trying to find outrageous examples of books that were never in elementary school libraries to justify banning other books that should be there, don't play dumb.

 

hmmm. so, government is both the problem & the solution. Best def of addiction I've heard is something that causes a problem & also offers a solution to the problem it created. Sounds like someone has a BIG GOV addiction.

 

Don’t be a toady. I was simply explaining the metric. It’s accurate.

People only move for 2 reasons. To retire or for a job. No one moves for politics. People retire to Florida and will continue to as long as housing is cheap - will slow when its no longer cheap. No one retires to California because land is so expensive. Florida isn’t attracting morons who love white boot governors who hate gay Americans and love banning books. Florida has been growing since air conditioning was invented genius.

 

I asked first and all I’ve gotten is crickets.

 

Why can't you answer the simple question? You are using that book as example to prove your point ... just give us the name of an elementary school that book was removed from. It shouldn't be that hard, unless you are lying about something ...