Migrants Hurting Themselves Falling off "Unclimbable" Wall

I'm not sure I understand the question. I have no idea the breakdown of legal vs. illegal immigrants at a place like a meat packing plant. There seems to be quite a few articles that talk about the mistreatment of illegal immigrants, even those in the meat packing industry. Wages is one component, but worker's comp, working conditions, hours worked, etc.; these things all factor in to the total cost.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

I’d support a guest worker program or any other reasonable means to deliberately allow immigration in some sort of rational fashion. Many other countries do this. I don’t support an open border.

I’m not going to even bother with arguing with you about whether a 30 foot wall has no impact.

 

Ok, I wasn't aware of that because I deal mainly with people who need seasonal.

 

Now show me all the people that never try.
Again, I'm not a fan of the wall... But it isnt made out of wet paper.

 

Yes but a lot of folks arent as motivated. Its a numbers game i assume.

 

Those dont look like tunnels.

 

Perhaps the only Republican issue I have sympathy for or agree with is a better regulated and controlled border immigration policy with Latin America.

Illegal immigration does have negative consequences and I have personally been affected by such.

 

I love the posters trying to say a wall isn't a deterrent. Too funny. Thanks for the laughs. What's awesome is no one actually believes that, they are just trying to convince others it isn't needed.

 

To be clear I’ve never been a big proponent of the wall, although IMO in certain places it may make sense. I am generally pro immigration. I think the benefits far outweigh the costs.

My big problem is our completely haphazard way of doing it. People come to our border, and if you cross, you win. Just claim asylum. Then we rely on an overwhelmed court system to process them if they return on their honor. The diversity of immigrants crossing the border has increased. It used to be Mexicans looking for work. Now it is all kinds of nationalities with all kinds of different motivations. While 15 years ago the assertion of terrorists crossing the border was a joke, it is more plausible now, although I can’t say to what degree it happens.

I have much sympathy for the individuals that come, at great cost and risk. But at the same time, we can’t let everybody come here that would like to be here. Therefore there needs to be a process. The process we have now is badly broken.

The motivation on both sides is to not give an inch and keep this as a wedge issue. It’s either build a wall and shoot intruders or wide open border. There are practical solutions to be had, but the political will for compromise is not there, as with most other issues.

 

So make it 100 feet.

 

Agree with your overall diagnosis and that the system is broken. But I don't think most Democratic voters or politicians want wide open borders. The Gang of Eight supported bill of 2013 passed in the Senate with 68 votes though admittedly, I don't recall the specifics of the bill. Boehner didn't take it up in the House, and my guess is that he didn't have the votes even back then. That was during a time when the GOP was making efforts to broaden its base, but the party obviously shifted on immigration over the next two or three years that followed. I think the average Republican House member would be taking a lot more political risk in compromising on this stuff compared to their Democratic colleagues.

 

Yes wide open borders is an exaggeration but I think there is a large chunk that have become more hostile to practical solutions since Trump arrived on the scene. I think Obama and Biden when faced with reality made tough choices, but when Biden was running he was really using open borders type rhetoric and that lead to at least a temporary surge at the border when he got into office.

In the past Democrats always insisted on a path to citizenship as part of the deal. While I would support that the problem is now big enough that I’d say put that aside to get a practical solution.

The big problem now is the whole claim asylum tactic, and I see no indication from the board liberals here that there is any willingness to change that process. Their solution is just hire a million more judges to process them all, which is impractical.

when I say open borders I mean people like azcatfan who best I can tell is opposed to turning anybody away, presumably as long as they aren’t a criminal or terrorist.

 

Show me a finished wall. And if it doesn't do anything why is Bumbling Joe building more wall?

 

Frankly it's not the US's problem if someone gets hurt climbing the wall. This is next level dumb thinking a wall is zero deterrent. Anyone who thinks a wall doesn't deter anyone should show me a picture of their house without walls and doors. Otherwise they are just making crap up.

 

Fair points.

I do recall many Republicans were complaining that Obama wasn't enforcing our laws when he was in office. When Trump was elected, many Republicans pointed out that Obama had his own cages and deported tons of people. That wasn't to give Obama credit but presumably just to point out hypocrisy on the left. Of course, some Democrats were in fact critical of Obama's immigration policies, but I'm sure many gave him a pass because they trusted his motives and because he wasn't using anti-immigrant language at every opportunity.

The partisan nature of our politics definitely makes practical solutions difficult because we're often more concerned about re-litigating the past or finding hypocrisy on the other side than solving problems. I haven't dug into possible polling, but I would bet that Democrats would be more agreeable than Republicans to compromised, comprehensive reform. The Overton Window has shifted so that we're now debating things like birthright citizenship and massive, broad-based deportations that I don't recall being considered mainstream just ten years ago. Of course, you're also correct that the migration of folks seeking refuge from so many countries seems to be more of a problem in recent years, and that's not helping when we couldn't even figure it out before then.

 

I think you are probably fairly close to correct on take, but I would say in my opinion most R's would be willing to compromise on reforms once we have a much more secure border. Why give amnesty to all the illegals here now when, we make little to no effort in stopping more from coming? Take the talking point away from the pubs by doing meaningful steps to stop the flow of illegals coming in, then let's work on what we do with who's here now and how we stop more coming. If you going to bake a cake with all these ingredients, you first need a bowl to mix them in. Securing the border is the bowl!! All these worker programs, increasing trade, creating jobs in these countries, giving those here amnesty are ingredients to a good border policy, but it starts with the bowl.

 

Make it high enough and there won’t be any injuries. Or survivors

 

Well, China's communist, so the wall keeps them IN.

Aint that right @wgbgator ?