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  1. Hi there... Can you please quickly check to make sure your email address is up to date here? Just in case we need to reach out to you or you lose your password. Muchero thanks!

After some thoughts post Arky - I think I have some perspective to offer here...

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by makattack, Nov 5, 2023.

  1. makattack

    makattack GC Legend

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    TLDR at the bottom.

    First off - if you're on the "Fire Billy" train this early in his tenure, go ahead and hit the back button. You'll find nothing in this thread other than rage bait and you might even vomit or just toss your keyboard out the nearest window. No food for you here, only a meager attempt to step back and evaluate this program for what it is, where it's going, and why - as well as attempt to explain why I don't believe the sky is falling... yet.

    With that... here's the perspective I have. Feel free to dissent or expound upon it. It will NOT be short - you were warned.

    I'm a negative first type of guy, I like to clear the air and then get to the good. So, let's address the issues of Billy's program so far, at least as we've witnessed on the field (as his off field issues appear few or miniscule at best)...

    CONS:

    1. Special teams has been mediocre all year, and at times dreadful. Yesterday was another example of dreadful when we could have just used mediocre. If Florida just hits that PAT, or simply doesn't send their kick team out during a clear spike scenario, we are all likely sitting here discussing our chances as a fellow 6-3 squad about to travel to baton rouge to take on another 6-3 squad. Unfortunately, Florida didn't get that PAT, and they DID send the kick team out... in an egregious error of communication and preparedness (or lack thereof). An error that likely had most of us screaming at our TVs and pulling out what little hair we have left after this season... To sum it up - the continued errors in ST is simply unacceptable. We all know this. The writers know it. The boosters know it. And I guarantee you Billy knows it. The issue is Billy isn't going to offer you the satisfaction of throwing anyone under the bus, player or assistant. So, while Billy likely knows he MUST make a change in the off-season, there is not much that can be done right now besides he himself stepping in more in that role. For now, we likely just have to hope that we can limp through the remainder 3 games and "hope" that "mediocre" doesn't come back to bite us and turn "tragic" once again.

    2. Playcalling/Scheme. We all agree that Billy's scheme is somewhat pedestrian in nature, and while there ARE good designs therein, they are too often mixed with simple route concepts, predictable play actions, and monotonous run schemes. The lack of a downfield passing attack has KILLED Florida at times this year, especially considering the bevy of talent (albeit young talent) we have at skill positions. That being said, the poor pass-pro from the O-line has undoubtedly contributed to this and forced a more conservative hand from Billy. This is understandable. When you have one experienced, veteran QB on the roster to run your system, you don't draw up plays that are likely to get him killed. Florida has at times attempted down field passes this year, and almost every time the protection has broken down before Mertz or the WR gets a chance. This leads into the next issue... but I just want to close by saying - its clear. Billy isn't a BAD offensive mind. Some of his run concepts are damn impressive. And there ARE good pass designs in the mix. But there's too much other fluff that just doesn't work in the SEC - defenses are too disciplined and too talented to fall for all of his window dressing. Whether he likes it or not, for Billy to succeed at Florida he will have to turn over the reigns of his offense to someone else. If only to allow him to dedicate his attention elsewhere, as often required of a HC.

    3. O-line play this year has been bad. Not dreadful or horrid, but just bad. There's been moments where the run game has popped, and there's times when the pass-pro does hold. But those fleeting moments are scattered in between NUMEROUS occurences of blown assignments, and poor technique. At the risk of going into too much detail, we'll just say that we all know recruiting MUST prioritize this area of the team. It has been sorely neglected in recent years, and if Billy desires to be a physical, in the trenches type team, this obviously has to change and he knows that. He is already bringing in a LEGENDARY DL class for 2024... but we NEED Seaton and at least 1 or 2 hosses up front. Here's hoping the portal helps there too...

    4. Billy needs to be a better football coach and not JUST a leader of men. No one is going to criticize Billy as a man, person, or leader. We all acknowledge he is made of good stuff, and it's also WHY we all (or atleast many of us) would like him to succeed. His intangibles and desire to bring in QUALITY young men to the program are admirable. It's the type of leader you want representing your university. All that being said... Billy has proven to be just average on game day. Sometimes his time management is decent, other times its head scratching-ly bad. Sometimes he's aggressive when he needs to be, other times he plays like we're ahead by 40 when we're actually down by 17 (this can be mitigated or solved with a new OC, worth noting). But also... Billy may never be a presser guy, and we knew that when he came as all the Lafayette peeps told us so. But what they didn't warn us of... was all the life lessons our team would learn after every... single... demoralizing... loss. We get it, Billy. There are absolutely lessons in football. Valuable ones. And we know your team has a good makeup and character. No doubt because of the values you've helped instill into them... That being said, we want football answers. We want football analysis. We want football SOLUTIONS to the football PROBLEMS this team is having. Coming out in your post game presser and reminding the public that what the team went through during the week (involving the "salute to serve" message, black unis, guest speakers, etc.) is worth keeping sight of in the WAKE of a demoralizing loss... is just not a good look. Period.

    PROS:

    1. Billy and his staff are clearly ELITE player evaluators. It remains to be seen if they are elite developers. Still, when you take a step back and examine the bright spots on this team... literally ALL the best players are Billy's recruits/transfers. Etienne, Wilson, Pearsall, Mertz, Boardingham, etc. Some of the younger stars on defense like James and Castell have had moments throughout the year, but are clearly lacking additional experience. Still, it should go without saying at this point, that Billy clearly can not only identify top talent, but attract it as well. Florida currently holds the #3 recruiting class for 2024 and, as for now, that is the sole reason to cling to hope for the future. If Billy and co. can maintain that class, despite whatever horrors befall the Gators in the rest of November... that will be a monumental achievement in and of itself.

    2 final sub-points to be made here...

    - Who here had faith in Billy with the Mertz evaluation in the summer? That turned out pretty well.

    - Despite Gator fan's proclivity to hyper focus on the offense, whether good or bad, it is CLEAR that this team is losing games because of the defense. Both 2022 and 2023 are rife with numerous examples where even an average level SEC defense wins Florida 2 or 3 of the games they lost. This remains true. The issue we're having is FAR more centered around the defense than it is offense. We are VERY young on defense and will only get better. Worth noting, in regards to Arky, we were also missing our leader in the middle with Shemar out. Never underestimate the value of your MLB.

    2. Billy and his staff have CLEARLY emphasize character and off-field performance. When was the last time you read about a Gator in the news? Not much else to be said here. Billy is requiring a lot from these guys off the field, maintaining a high bar of excellence, accountability, and discipline. For this reason, almost alone, I want Billy to succeed. But he HAS to have a winning football team too - not just a nice group of men. That can certainly help, but you need a winning formula on the field too.

    3. Billy (and maybe Sale too) are fantastic run game coordinators, despite Billy's history of playing QB. I've always found that somewhat humorous. Regardless, when Florida has a strong unit up front (see 2022), the run game in this offense is SOMETHING to behold. Certainly something Gator fans have not been accustomed to as much, since Fred Taylor. At least not in the sense of a downhill, physical attack. That is who Napier wants to be but he needs the line to do it - as of this year, he hasn't had it. Which brings me to my final point/pro...

    4. As previously alluded to in point 1, Billy is obviously an elite relationship builder and thrives when he's selling a program and all that program offers to a player. His recruiting intangibles are clear, and there was evidence of it after his time at Lafayette when he immediately elevated their talent year in and year out and left them much better stocked than how he found them. That being said, Billy's greatest challenge remains ahead as he seeks to hold together this upcoming class. While I do think the majority of it will remain intact, as the glue of Lagway isn't going anywhere else no matter what, you still want to ADD more talent, not lose 1 or 2 guys along the way. The challenge for Florida in these remaining 3 weeks is to at least FIGHT. Give these kids something to hope for, something to witness and say to themselves "Ok, they're close. And their makeup is good. They just need ME to help them over the top". That's the message that has to be received - these recruits WILL come in and play immediately. And that's very attractive to many of them, if not all. But that's certainly not the only factor involved. Billy HAS to hold this class together for him to have any chance in 2024 and beyond.

    I could go on but this is already an essay as it is... I will close with a final thought regarding Arkansas:

    Despite what your drunken haze Saturday night may have whispered to you, Arkansas is NOT a trash team like many of you seem to think. Yes, they had a bad loss to Miss St and it's why they fired their OC. But they also took Bama, Miss, and LSU down to the wire in one score games. Their record could easily be flipped right now to 6-3, and they'd be the heartbreaker of the SEC as well as a top 25 team.

    In addition to this, their team makeup is full of veterans who are at the end of their careers while Florida is quite literally fielding the youngest team in FBS.

    And with that... I will end and reiterate that final sentence. This 2023 Gator football team is YOUNG. Very young. Let's remember that. And let's ride with them to the end.

    FWIW, I think we're going to spoil someone's season in the coming weeks. Not sure who, just have a feeling we will. I do think we finish with 6 wins and a bowl game. This team lacks polish, but they are NOT quitters. Just listening to Mertz and Pearsall after the game was proof enough of that fact.

    This list could be expanded much more, but these are simply the issues/positives that stick out to me the most. I'm sure I will expound upon them in the comments as I think of other elements at play here.

    ----

    TLDR

    CONS:

    1. Special Teams
    2. Playcalling/Offensive Scheme
    3. O-line
    4. PR - this isn't really fixable, it's just Billy at this point.

    PROS:

    1. Elite talent evaluations.
    2. Off-field character/lack of issues (many of you will joke about this, but I believe its valuable and speaks of internal discipline/priorities)
    3. Best downhill rush attack since Fred Taylor, but only when the line play is there.
    4. TBD but recruiting is best its been since Meyer/Muschamp a decade ago.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2023
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  2. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    I know there's plenty to unpack here and appreciate your sentiment. The penalty at the end of the game def had me seething and is another indicator of suspect coaching. I don't think by any stretch of the imagination that this is the best rush attack since Fred Taylor. o_O
     
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  3. partdopy

    partdopy GC Hall of Fame

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    That's quite a novel, but if you're embarrassed, frustrated and weary from sitting on your couch watching a football game I think you need to get a grip. Go out and enjoy your life, you're not on the team.
     
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  4. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree with your cons but would add one:

    We were missing three of our front seven, with two of them being probably our best defensive players so we probably need to use the portal form more depth as the incoming freshman next year will be a little green.

    My disagreement with you is on playcalling/scheme. While is would like to see more more downfield attack that is severely restricted by the o-line. On their best days they are mediocre and very inconsistent on top of that. That’s why you see so much quick wide routes and bubble screens. It spreads the D wide because we can’t really stretch them deep.
     
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  5. Claygator

    Claygator GC Hall of Fame

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    I appreciate the effort you put into this. But guess what? The people that make decisions don't give a crap what you say, or I say , or Partdopy ( no offense) says, etc.

    You are jousting at windmills.

    Find something better to do. Maybe use the time to monitor your investment accounts to make more money.

    Way more productive.
     
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  6. makattack

    makattack GC Legend

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    Damn, you seem fun. This is a message board, chief. You post thoughts and converse with other fans, and shoot the breeze about your team. Nothing too complicated so don't overthink it.

    You might try other message boards to see what they're like, but judging by your demeanor they likely aren't for you.
     
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  7. makattack

    makattack GC Legend

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    Totally agree. That was a bit of a disclaimer. I edited it now so as to not misconstrue intent.
     
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  8. makattack

    makattack GC Legend

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    Downfield, between the tackles. I think it is, or at least has the potential to be. Florida has had 2 1000 yard rushers in the last 20 years (Fason and Gillislee). Johnson and Etn both combined for over 1000 last year, and that wasn't even counting AR's rushing. Of course, the o-line was much better a year ago too. I distinguish Napier's running attack differently than the run game with Tebow, Harvin and Demps/Rainey. That was all speed and short yardage runs (Tebow). In terms of a traditional run game, I see Johnson and Etienne as the best "traditional" rushing attack Florida has had in awhile WHEN/IF that o-line is working. So, really, only last year.

    Regardless, I think its fair to disagree too. Just my opinion and I'm wrong at times. :p
     
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  9. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2021 all rushed better than Taylor's 97 team. A few of those rushed more than 2022 and this year's team has a weak run game. But I guess Napier's teams are better at "traditional" rushing, whatever that's worth. o_O
     
  10. gooberpeas

    gooberpeas All American

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    I think you are spot on with your essay! GO GATORS!!
     
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  11. makattack

    makattack GC Legend

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    To be fair, I specified outside of Meyer's teams and also mentioned Gillislee in 2012.

    I am also speaking to the style of running, effectiveness of the run game/scheme, and not just pure stats/yardage. The YPA last year was particularly good for both backs. Regardless, you're probably correct regarding a stats based argument. I just really like the run schemes Napier does, and think, when we're clicking with an effective O-line, that they are very effective.

    The Gator Nation Podcast has also pointed this out over the last 2 years.
     
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  12. eightiesgator

    eightiesgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Extremely apples and oranges...
     
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  13. Claygator

    Claygator GC Hall of Fame

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    Nah.. I don't look other message boards, fearing that they are like this one. Some people invest way too much of their life in this. Waaaay too much.

    And I am fun. Buy you a beer someday. I roam the state; send me a pm of your whereabouts and I will treat.
     
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  14. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Sorry, didn't see that in your bullet points. So you are correct. Other than most of the years under Meyer, and the good rushing year with Gillislee, and the good running teams under Mullen, and when we weren't fielding a traditional running game, and when it's not a between the tackles run game, and when we have better oline play, then the Napier run game is stellar in comparison. o_O TBH I'm not in the mood for far-fetched silver linings at the moment, nor are many Gator folks. I'll recuse myself. Thank you.
     
  15. wingtee

    wingtee GC Hall of Fame

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    I didn’t think you could stay sober that long to post this
     
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  16. makattack

    makattack GC Legend

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    It's a message board. People spill their thoughts and discuss. It's also what writers do - in article format. I guess you don't read those either because they invest "way too much of their life in this". Thank you for the holier than thou message - we all benefited from its thoughtful critique.
     
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  17. makattack

    makattack GC Legend

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    My point was addressing the running game coming purely from the backs and not the QBs... that being said, I will agree to disagree and move on.
     
  18. Wanne15

    Wanne15 GC Hall of Fame

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    Taylor probably could have done more but that offense didn’t rely on him as much as they could have.
     
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  19. bullish

    bullish GC Hall of Fame

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  20. TrueGator

    TrueGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Trade our two offensive line coaches for one good one and one offensive coordinator (or one special teams coach). Special Teams management has truly been the promised "Game-changer", but not in a good way. Keep the current recruiting class intact at all cost. Win one of the last three games and the easiest bowl matchup we get offered. Knocking fsu out of playoff contention with an upset win would be the best thing that a home crowd could end the season with. The better team doesn't always win rivalry games; it's not impossible. Changing out the head coach now would send the current team into the portal, disintegrate the current recruiting class, and set us back five years. Don't do it.
     
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