Should the federal government send aid to cities for migrants ?

We have essentially two types of people seeking asylum or protection under CAT (Convention against Torture):
1. People who went to a port of entry and requested relief; or
2. People who entered without permission and then requested relief (whether they turned themselves in or were caught).

There's zero credible argument that the people covered by #1 are here illegally (although, people like CIS would try to argue that because they hate immigrants). I'm sure some will argue that #2 are here "illegally," but it's not accurate either. Illegal entry is a misdemeanor, but the government has prosecutorial discretion. It gets to make enforcement decisions and determine how to best use scarce resources. It's no different than speeding. Should I refer to you as a criminal if you've sped in your life and gotten away with it (or gotten caught)?

Our government also has a significant amount of discretion regarding whether they detain or parole people seeking relief. If they choose to parole them or grant them bond, the government has given them permission to stay in the country as a free person until their case is resolved. That means they are not "illegals." It is after all our laws that grant the government that discretion (8 U.S.C. 1226(a) is an example). Our laws also guarantee that they can seek asylum and protection under CAT. Our Constitution guarantees them due process.

The only people one could credibly argue as "illegals" are undocumented immigrants who snuck in and haven't been apprehended. They are here without permission. Of course, there are millions upon millions of undocumented people who fit in this bucket, contribute to our society, work integral jobs, and live law-abiding lives outside of entering the country without permission. So I see no reason to punch down on those folks.

 

oh no…… your “facts” seem to be contested

$150 Billion loss. WTF?
The Cost of Illegal Immigration to American Taxpayers 2023

$94 Billion a year loss! Holy crap
https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/rector_testimony_913.pdf

Cost to Texas. About a Billion a year. Damnnnnnnn
AG Paxton: Illegal Immigration Costs Texas Taxpayers Over $850 Million Each Year


oh, give the mayor of NYC a call and ask him about the costs. His number is 1-800-HOL-YFUC

$12 Billion. WOWZA
https://www.axios.com/2023/08/10/new-york-migrants-eric-adams-biden-border

 

Your first link from FAIR, a known racist hate group, is fatally flawed. They consider expenses for all families living with an undocumented alien. So a child born with one citizen patent, and one parent legally here on a student visa, who later overstays said visa is a citizen child, born of two parents at the time were legally here, with now an undocumented parent. This citizen child should not be counted against undocumented costs, but FAIR does because of the undocumented parent.

Even worse, FAIR uses static scoring. Meaning if said kid is currently 8 years old in grade school, education costs are between $10k and $12k a year. FAIR's poor accounting practice would have this cost for the kid's entire life! Even at 38, near the peak of this person's earning ability, FAIR would have a net negative for education costs, and not him earning and paying taxes.

Oh and Texas? If you look at only one side of the ledger, costs, of course it looks bad. But a Rice University study showed that for every $1 the state spends on undocumented immigrants, $1.21 is produced. So, for the $850 million spent in Texas, the immigrants generate over $1 billion.

And NY? One way to alleviate the burden? Let the asylum seekers work and take care of themselves! We could even charge a guest worker visa that if asylum is granted, money returned. If not, the immigrants can continue to pay. Just $5/week from the 8 million in our work force would generate over $2 billion a year.

Again, you don't need an advanced degree in economics to know increasing the ratio of open jobs to unemployed from 1.5 jobs per unemployed person to 3 open jobs per unemployed person is a bad idea. Nor is removing a significant source of labor in key markets like agriculture, construction, elderly care, and more, with little chance of replacement.

 

One more thing. You may save Texas $850 million, but it will cost the state over $1 billion. Plus, you'll cause the price of milk to triple. A net loss of $170 million and 3X inflation. Who really wants this?

 

of course it is. They are also one of the greatest existential threats to our planet and a threat to Democracy.



wait, did you say something?

 

I’ll go with half the country, and the other half I would put in the basket of deplorables.

 

What an intellectually lazy response. Pick one small thing from the post, which is true no less, and ignore the meat of the argument.

I doubt half the country would want the stagflation that would come with deporting millions. But half the country has less than average intelligence too and maybe can't accept the economic reality of what would happen if we deported 8 million job holders when we already have over 9 million job openings, and only 6.4 million people unemployed.

 

I appreciate your honesty. I didn't want to call you out because I do my best to keep my posts kind and positive. Using the tired trope of racism to dismiss the multiple citations to counter authority I cite is too common on this forum. It took courage on your part to step forward and acknowledge it. I applaud you.

 

Tired trope? Maybe. Also FAIR's ties to white supremacy groups? Absolutely true. No question those ties exist.

It's a reason to explain why a group like FAIR would use questionable practices life counting citizen children and using static scoring to come up with immigration being a net fiscal negative. FAIR has racist, ulterior motives. And any group using best practices all show immigration to be a net fiscal positive.

If you want to continue to use an obviously racist group's, skewed numbers, that's on you. I find the group offensive, age their accounting practices to come to their conclusions fatally flawed for the reasons I've given.

 

You are yo-yo'ing on your conciliatory post by returning to your tired old tropes. BTW, I posted multiple links, one from the US Senate.

Your original assertion is still nothing but specialulation. Your facts are still nothing but opinions. It doesn't mean you are wrong, but it does mean you may be wrong.

 

Given they are such an economic boon to where they end up I do t see a reason the feds should be sending extra money to these sanctuary cities. Maybe the cities should be sending the extra money the undocumented workers are providing their economy to the feds as thank you for shipping them there in the first place?

 

My facts are what actually happened in smaller scales on a local and state level. I responded to your other links as well. Looking at only costs is a bad way to figure out cost/ benefit analysis. And the Ruce University study showed $1.21 made for every $1 spent on immigration.

As for the asylum seekers, let them work and pay for a temporary Visa, and not only would they need little or no Fed assistance, they'd bee paying into the treasury.

 

Does your speculation include NYC, because if so, then their Mayor and Governor are attempting to commit Fraud on the U.S. Govt.

 

What's happening in NYC is current. The answer is to let the immigrants seeking asylum work permits and take care of themselves. The past incidents I refer to are things like the near local fiscal collapse when Vidalia onion workers were raided in 1998. And the billions states like Alabama lost a decade ago when they passed strict immigration laws that drove many out of state.

This Forbes article goes into some detail why we need immigrants. Without the influx of labor, we'll experience lower supply but same demand. High school economics says this condition leads to higher prices, or in other words, inflation. Japan is already nearing a breaking point.

This study says mass deportation would result in a GDP loss between 1.4% and 2.6%. In other words, a recession. And v what do we call a recession with inflation happening at the same time? Stagflation.

It's not theory. It's simple economics. And why no politician has aggressively tried to deport all undocumented. Not even Trump. The resulting financial collapse would be v devastating to both the county, and political careers.

 

It is a theory, and it relies on disputed facts. That is uncontestable. I don't understand your continued reference to work permits. are you suggesting that the people who are cross the border illegally aren't working because they don't have a permit?

 

You might be unaware of this but they don't have a work permit. Are you in favor of providing extra Federal money for judges so that they are able to obtain a work permit?

 

It was tongue in cheek. We have some claiming the economy will collapse with all these undocumented workers, that they are a massive boon tot he state economy. On the other hand we have others claiming they are such a drain on the budget that the feds need to send extra funding to help support them.

 

Not theory. Sound economics backed by actual events on a smaller scale.

And newly arrived asylum seekers often don't work right away. Afraid of breaking the law and being deported. Give them permits, and problem solved.

 

the amount of asylum seekers who ask permission to enter our house isn’t enough to field a football team. The amount of immigrants who cross our borders illegally and file frivolous asylum claims, or only ask for asylum after they’ve been caught are 95+%. You are a dreamer (pun intended) to think that illegal immigrants won’t work without a permit. What is your source for that assertion?

No matter how many times you assert your theory as “fact” it’s not going to magically convert itself into truth….and frankly even if true it is irrelevant. We have laws on the books, which are more generous than any other nation. Until Congress changes those laws, they need to be enforced. If by some devine miracle your theory turns out to be true, then you should expect that to be the impetus to get Congress to change the law.

 

My "theory" is absolutely true. We saw global labor shortages during COVID. Guess what inflation did? Alabama had a Draconian immigrant law for a season. Cost them nearly $11 billion. It's not theory. It's simple economics.

The asylum seekers will eventually seek work. But not right away. Need to get settled first, and when they first come, they don't want to rock the boat and break the law. No reason why they can't start looking for work now.

And twice, bipartisan Senate groups tried to change the law. Neither group came to the conclusion mass deportation is the answer. Both said an extended guest worker program is the answer. A Gang of 8 plan won't solve everything. But it will make things better.