Post Roe - abortions increase

He doesn’t have an argument with his argumentum ad passiones attempts rather than using critical thinking to make his point. Something you might expect from someone from with a victim mentality.

 

Another swing and a miss. Let me try to dumb it down for you. You’re discussing nothing, you’re trying to manipulate others to your point by playing to their emotions rather than logic. When you can figure out a way to make a valid point without trying to claim the moral high ground without any basis in fact, and making ad hominem attacks, then perhaps you might be taken more serious. That takes work, and what you’re doing is intellectually lazy.

 

I'm on the side of life too. But instead of pamphlet platitudes and supporting laws that make things worse, I support things that work. If the goal is less abortions and less death, why support laws that end up causing more deaths? Sounds like you really don't care, but your platitudes make you think you do, and help you sleep at night.

I find abortion bad. But I also understand that as long as we have unwanted pregnancies, there will be abortion. Laws don't help. What does is keeping abortion safe and legal, and working hard to make them rare.

What actually accomplishes this? Comprehensive sex education. And access to birth control. These work. Laws? Abortion laws are as effective as Prohibition was.

 

I am not manipulating anything. Facts are your life began at conception. That is when you began to develop to where you are today. Separate from your mother. And father for that matter. This is a known reality. It is also clear that humans have a moral compass. Unfortunately some have no concern for the most innocent and are more concerned about selfish convenience.

 

Abortion is bad. Let’s make it safe instead of illegal? Okay…

 

Apparently you don’t see it, but let’s set that aside and see if we can find some common ground.

Let’s agree that abortion is bad but sometimes necessary because the life of the mother is in danger, the fetus is already dead, or won’t survive outside the mother. Let’s also agree that the sexual revolution is over and sex won because people are going to have sex. That it’s not a filthy disgusting act and a sin that will send you straight to hell like the religious right says.

As an alternative I propose we eliminate the need for unwanted pregnancies by making human reproduction and birth control measures as a part of required middle and high school classwork, and make birth control products more accessible such as condom vending machines, morning after pills, and other devices.

 

Or someone with a desperate need for attention?

 

Here is an example of what works to reduce abortions. The GOP in Colorado shut down the program because they ... wanted to increase abortions?

Colorado contraception program was a huge success – but the GOP is scrapping it

The Colorado Family Planning Initiative (CFPI) offered low-income women and teenagers access to low or no-cost contraceptive devices, including IUDs and implants, and trained providers in insertion and counselling techniques. Last year, researchers reported significant drops in the birth rate among teens and young adult women in participating counties. The abortion rate among women between 15 and 19 years old dropped by more than a third; high-risk pregnancies by a fourth.

In July the governor’s office issued a glowing press release, crediting the program with a 40% statewide drop in teen birth rates between 2009 and 2013 – and a 35% drop in abortions.

But, despite the program’s widely reported successes, last Wednesday Colorado’s Republican-controlled senate killed a bill that would sustain and expand CFPI services.

“Unfortunately, family planning is a political issue and science and data gets trumped by ideology,” Greta Klingler, who works for the Colorado department of public health and environment, and who authored the CFPI report, told the Guardian.

 

Abortion is bad. Know what's worse? Women with life threatening pregnancies that can't get an abortion. Women who commit suicide because they can't get an abortion. Women who seek back alleys and have botched abortions and end up infertile or worse, dead. What can prevent all this? Keeping abortion safe and legal.

The work should be to make abortion rare. Programs like the one from Colorado work. And they don't come with all the ugly that banning abortions comes with.

 

I have no problem with sex education. Condoms are cheap. There are plenty of cheap contraception alternatives to use. I have no issue with them.

 

There has not been any law that does not provide exceptions when the mothers life is in danger. Spare that nonsense. We are talking the 99% of abortions for convenience…

 

It is both arrogant and inaccurate for you to suggest your moral compass is better than the people you argue with about this issue.

 

When you put in restrictions, or make things illegal, it creates gray areas. When does a fetus stop being viable and a pregnancy becomes ectopic? There are several stories of women in peril because doctors were worried if they ended a pregnancy too early, it world be illegal.

Providing safe and legal spaces for ectopic pregnancies was only one part of the argument. Don't provide these spaces, and studies show it increases young women suicides, and medical complications from botched attempts, leading to more deaths and women who no longer can become pregnant.

You claim to have the moral high ground. But the results of your desired actions are more deaths and less future pregnancies.

 

I have not said mine is better that I know of. That said…I think most understand killing the most innocent for convenience is wrong. And it probably hurts when you defend such thing are are called out for it. As it should.

 

Keep defending what you know is wrong and bad…

 

This thread is interesting in that all I see are the pro life posts, except for a couple of pro life posters I apparently have them all on ignore, and really the only ones I keep on ignore and the hard core antivaxxers.

 

Bad is a spectrum. Safe, legal abortions and working to make them rare may be bad. But back alley abortions that end up with more dead women and infertile women is worse. Making abortion illegal would make things worse.

 

No. You clearly understand bad is evil here. Yet you want to justify evil.

 

No. I understand evil is on a scale. A botched abortion or a woman committing suicide because she doesn't have abortion access is worse than a clean, safe, and legal abortion. I also understand simply making abortion illegal never results in fewer abortions. All it accomplishes is making abortion more difficult to attain, meaning more suicides and botched abortions.

Of you think more suicides and botched abortions are better, more moral, or acceptable punishment for the evil of abortion, then continue your crusade to make abortion illegal. If prefer we work to make abortion rare.