Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

With the history of violence from both sides, the only real solution is an international force keeping the peace for at least a generation, and probably two. Hamas needs to go, but getting rid of them won't do anything about the conditions that led Palestinians to view them as their least bad option.

40% of the population of Gaza is under 18. Their whole life has been Israel killing Palestinians, destroying the homes of Palestinians, and shutting off their power/water/internet at will. From their perspective, why would they not want to hit back at those abusing them and their families? Their whole life has also been Hamas killing Israelis. This is all they know.

The Palestinians need to be removed, or the Israelis need to be removed, or an international force needs to keep them separated for long enough that the voters and decision-makers in both countries know what peace feels like and are motivated to preserve it.

The international community doesn't have a willingness to do any of those things, and so this will continue. Neither side in this conflict has clean hands.

 

Extremely tragic. Hate this.

 

You speak much truth. But International peacekeepers were unable to stop the Six Day War (Nasser demanded their removal) and became targets in Beirut in 1982 after the US broke neutrality.

But it might be the least bad solution if there were any appetite for it, which as you accurately state, there isn’t.

One larger trend is very worrisome. The “Third World” (bad term, but useful shorthand), especially in the Middle East and Africa, is in political uprise against the attack on Gaza. So is the far left in the West, including the US. While I think that supporting the Palestinian cause against Israel in a political/non-violent manner was a just cause before October 7, I cannot fathom why this arose now. The bombing is horrendous but there is context, a true atrocity that demanded a response and ending of Hamas.

But this political uprising is nonetheless real and undeniable, and has consequences. It threatens Ukraine by fracturing a large degree of international support or at least non-opposition to the West, and it threatens American democracy and the American future by peeling off enough of the Democrats’ coalition to permit the MAGA fascism to win enough power at the ballot box to end fair elections.

I don’t know what to do about that other than to listen to my wife and follow some of my friends in trying to get Spanish citizenship.

 

I think this is a WWII type of situation. Hamas and Gaza should be handled like Germany and the Nazi government. You defeat the government and then the nation is occupied by a foreign influence. If you can’t govern yourself, then you’ll be governed by someone else under their terms. Israel should govern Gaza and dictate the terms of that governance.

 

Don’t disagree with any of this. Hopefully the Israelis will be a little kinder to the Palestinians than the Russians were to the Germans.

That doesn’t change the fact that Gazans who are not a part of Hamas didn’t murder anyone. It’s an important distinction to make. There are completely innocent civilians in harms way.

 

I didn’t call all Gazans murderers, but they did openly elect a government that advocated for mass murder of Jews. Even the Germans didn’t do that. They had to be walked through Auschwitz and they came out in tears.

The people here are more culpable than the Germans ever were because of how openly advertised Hamas’ objectives have been.

 

Yeah you pretty much did.

…when you murder you go to jail, your life is over, and you don’t get to determine your future anymore. Your future is determined for you by those more powerful than you. That is Gaza’s fate now.”

You’re clearly equating Hamas and all Gazans.

 

And lol @ Germans being less culpable than Palestinians. What part of the Nazi party’s intentions were not crystal clear to the German people? They didn’t know their government was invading sovereign nations one after another? Get real.

 

Keep waiting to see Palestinians protesting Hamas in the streets. Keep waiting to see them calling for new leadership. Keep waiting to see them in solidarity with those
that were murdered/butchered.
But no
Just see American palestinaians cheering the murders, calling for cease fire on Hamas, celebrating from the ocean to the river.. actual genocide.
Palestine voted for Hamas. Palestine supported/supports Hamas. Not just in Gaza where there may be a threat if they do t, but all over the world.

 

lol the mental gymnastics on display is breathtaking. Israel is simply not going to be able to eliminate Hamas without killing a LOT of completely innocent people. It’s ok to feel bad about that. No need to twist yourself into a pretzel to make it seem like they are asking for it or deserve it. It’s unbecoming.

It sucks but it is what it is. I support Israel. I’m going to stop short of pretending like all Palestinians are culpable. Hell more than half of them are children.

 

Take about 20 laps dude.
You’re embarrassing yourself and you are talking the side of something very ugly.
It’s complicated but the hamas and the Gazans aren’t as far apart as you like to think.

 

They were elected in 2006. They haven't allowed any elections since then.

 

All those Palestinians babies have it coming for supporting Hamas.

 

I didn’t say any of that. I didn’t pretend anything. Mental gymnastics? That is what you did stretching my point to make me look like I want genocide.
I have not seen any Palestinians protesting Hamas. Have you? Any American palestines out in the streets mad at the murder of babies the elected government leaders of Gaza sanctioned and carried out? No? Why is that I wonder.
I don’t think ANY innocent people serve to die but when an elected government declares war and crosses a border to engage civilians, to rape and murder and kill children..to take hostages to use as human shields.. and the citizens of said government, the ones that put them in power and support them do nothing but cry foul at those that were attacked.. they are culpable. They are no longer innocent. When they march in the streets in support of Hamas, when US elected officials voice their support for Hamas, they are culpable and supporters of the evil.
So when Palestinians around the world start protesting the atrocities that Hamas visited on Israel, when they start protesting for better leaders, better government, when they do anything other than want Jews murdered … then I’ll believe they are innocent.

 

And Palestinians around the world have been protesting ever since, wanting new government, begging world powers to step in and protect them from the evils of Hamas. Arabs, Muslims, all have been diligent in trying to get Hamas out of Gaza.. right? Protests in the streets? Our own elected officials crying foul when Hamas stole the aide and supplies meant for the citizens?
No?
Hmm

 

How many Anti-Hamas protests have you joined? BTW, you might want to look up the Gaza protests in 2019.

 

I’m not a Palestinian to start with. They are not my elected officials. Hamas does not represent me. If the Democratic Party started killing all Canadians that live near the boarder and did so with Bidens consent … yeah.. I’d be protesting.
How many from the river to the sea protest have you joined?

 

Oh, so you are only responsible for the crimes committed by your ethnic group? Which group is that for you that we can blame you for?

Nor are they the elected officials of most Palestinians (heck, you can make the argument that they aren't the elected officials of Gaza, as there hasn't been an election in almost 2 decades, which doesn't really grant Hamas electoral legitimacy, which you strangely wish to grant them). You are saying people around the world need to protest them to not be supporters of them if they are of Palestinian descent. If you are a Palestinian-American, there is a pretty good chance that you never participated in an election even involving Hamas.

None. I haven't joined a protest on either side (BTW, you can review my posts on this thread, I mourn the loss of life, but am not sure Israelis have a choice at this point, and that loss of life will perpetuate the cycle, which will enrich the leaders of Hamas more, but, again, not sure there are many choices left at this stage for Israel as they can't let what happened stand unanswered).

But I also don't think anybody needs to join a protest in order to be in support or opposed to something. That is your standard. At least for people in other ethnic groups.

 

And yet so many around the world feel the need to protest against Israel.. who was attacked by the elected officials of Gaza? So many around the world have called for the river to the sea.. basic genocide of the Jewish nation.
Israel have Gaza warning before the attacked. They have let medical aide in. I hate that innocent people will sue and believe there are innocent people in Gaza, but do not for a second fault Israel and am disgusted by any and all who protest Israel or call for a cease fire. Where were they when hamas was launching missiles? Where was the squad to protest Hamas leadership in Gaza?
Does Hamas represent any other ethnic group outside of Palestinians? I am not aware if they do. I believe only Palestinians voted for them..
ethnicity has zero to do with it
As you well know. But yeah.. it’s fine. I’ll firmly stand on the side of Israel. The country that was attacked, the country whose women were raped and children brutally murdered. Whose children were taken hostage to be used as humans shields.
You. An continue to carry on Ayer for Hamas, the elected govt of Palestine. Those that did the raping, the murdering, the hostage taking. Those that hide behind their own hospitals and schools.
I don’t think it’s a good look, but maybe it suits you.

 

I also fully support Israel. They more or less have to invade Gaza to root out Hamas and the immediate threat they pose to the Israeli people. I’m just not pretending like they aren’t going to kill a bunch of innocent civilians in the process.