Post Roe - abortions increase

“Get your instruments off my body!”
— anonymous fetus —

 

Well, your policy preference results in more of what you claim not to want (legal abortions). So which is more important: less abortions or your feelings?

 

If I run a sim of possible human DNA combinations in a super computer, do all those DNA combinations then have a god given right to exist? This is where technology is. Kind of crazy where the world is technologically, but the zealots looking at things through an almost pre-history lens. Odd dichotomy. The “unique DNA” angle, as justification of life, is just unfathomably weird to me.

It’s just another one of those things hardliners take an absolute stance on something without examining or thinking through real world consequences. This is why we see MORE abortions as a result of harsher policies. We see women forced to endure unfathomable pain carrying a nonviable or stillborn fetus until she becomes septic. We see states driving out OBGYN’s and thus increasing mortality rates of all newborn infants and pregnant women across the board. For what? What these state laws actually do is increase the risks associated with getting pregnant! So smart!

We can put the absolutist position on the abortion issue right there with 2nd amendment hardliners, a position which results in many thousands of real live humans - not hypothetical ones - getting murdered every year. So much overlap in these hard-line positions it’s just sickening. Pro-life my ass.

 

We're not going to reverse 5 decades of "fetus = a tumor" to "life is sacred" over night.

But reversing Roe is a decent start.

A necessary pre-req.

 

If you need more than a day to reverse something no one has ever said seriously you probably have a bad substitute

 

What is interesting is that for all of your claims, abortions were constantly falling for decades. Now, it is increasing. So it wasn't because somebody was saying "fetus = a tumor" and people began to largely agree with that notion over time, as abortion rates were decreasing. Now, they aren't. So what changed?

 

I recall studies that showed abortion rates don’t fall in countries that banned abortion. The demand is constant. Which makes sense, as making something “illegal” never eliminates demand for xyz. It just pushes it into more dangerous black markets.

That the rates ticked *up* is interesting, I’m guessing just a knee jerk reaction some women had to get ahead of prospective laws. It will probably revert to the mean (if that blip up is even statistically significant). Although in states where they have increased mortality and worsened their health care systems, there is a possible explanation: some women may be acting on rational fears.

 

I think there could be a few issues:

The two that you mentioned, which could both be issues:

1. Possibly some amount of kneejerk reaction prior to the laws passing.
2. Possibly the feeling of less support for women in that situation leading to more abortion decisions.

But I could speculate on two more:

1. A decline in other activities that could result in lower abortion activity, such as lower amounts of contraceptive availability and counseling out of shifts in professional services.
2. An increase in the salience of abortion as an option causing more consideration of that option at an individual level.

 

I posted this in post 70


12ft |

With Covid it became much easier to get abortions and you didn’t have to always go into a center. You could get pills mailed to you. That was a game changer and made navigating a particular state abortion ban easier.

There were other factors articulated in the article.

 

First, yes, im pretty sure it has been said--and pretty sure its not original to me;

Second, even if it weren't, the characterization is quite accurate by acts if pretended to be denied, with words.

 

Easier access, push back/ resistance to change, and inertia from a decades' long indoctrination and culturization to "fetus = tumor" mentality.

As I said, it'll take a long time to reverse that trend, and remind folks of that heretofore most elementary of priciples--that life is sacred.

Why to we reserve the death penalty to murderers? Why do we call murder a "capital offense?"

Sanctity of life. That's a cornerstone principle that is obscured by abortion on demand.

Maybe we start to get fewer mass shootings, after we've gone back to fostering SOL as a fundamental principle.

 

It definitely has been said, by you

 

That is a stretch beyond stretch. If anything, life is viewed as more valuable now than ever. Violence levels have been falling for decades. If your argument were accurate, that would not be the case. Think about the incredible levels of death in past wars that would never be accepted today. As such, there is no evidence linking abortion to some generally lower respect for life.

 

So what you are saying is you think the 70% of women who disagree with you have been brainwashed, and if only the government would spiritually re-educate them all (and all future women) until they understand the sanctity of their wombs. Then everything would be all hunky dory, like in the olden days (whenever that was).

Intradesting.

Sounds unconstitutional, if not outright dystopian.

 

Sanctity of life and right to life are myths. We sanctify death every day. In my prior post 129 I gave plenty of examples where we choose death as the least worst choice.

Post Roe - abortions increase

 

Less abortions will happen if the procedure for convenience is illegal. We see that where life is protected…

 

62 million tumors removed between Roe, and its reversal.

I may have coined the phrasing (i dont claim to have), but 62 million procedures substantiated the claim by act regardless of what wording one chooses to hide behind.

 

The principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were proclaimed in the precursor to the USC--the Declaration of Independence.

Sanctity of life is a founding principle of our nation.

Roe implemented an end around to that, by pulling a curtain, and hiding abortion at will behind the veil of privacy.

This defacto sanctioning of destruction of human life with impunity in turn, undermined the presumption of sanctity of life, and has in its stead, yielded a culture of death premised on the cheapness of life.

Seems pretty clear that sactity of like is far more consistent with our constitution, than the fabricated veil of privacy behind which abortion on demand was hidden, and the cheapness-of-life culture, it has yielded.

 

The procedure was made illegal for all intents and purposes in many states. The number of abortions didn't change overall. The women looking for the procedure simply went from a state where there were high restrictions to a state where there are less to no restrictions. Abortion is legal in Canada and Mexico. What's to stop women from traveling there if abortion is outlawed in every state?

Illicit drugs are illegal. Has that stopped people from getting their hands on them? Alcohol was illegal during Prohibition. Did that stop people from getting their hands on alcohol. Abortions were illegal in many states before Roe. Did that stop women from having them back then? And do we really want to go back to a time with full septic wards full with women from botched abortions?

Your opinion that making abortions illegal will result in less abortions isn't supported by the facts. Know what does work? Comprehensive sex education which results in a smaller number of unwanted pregnancies, resulting in lower abortion rates. What doesn't work are laws that don't address demand. Never have. That's why we have black markets.

 

No, they won't. Because people just shifted them to locations where it was legal (and in greater numbers, apparently). In fact, that policy apparently seems to have led to more abortions overall. So unless the goal is to make the procedure happen further from you physically, the policy didn't accomplish your goal.