Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Latest - ground invasion purportedly delayed for us to put in THAAD and Patriot batteries around our troops. Those are not cost effective or maybe even effective defenses against drone swarms. Not sure what is going on about that. And not sure that is the sole reason for the delay in the offensive. I would bet otherwise.

Also says a lot of arms getting into West Bank from Iran through Jordan. That doesn't sound quite right. The report also says they are getting to PIJ, an "ally" of Hamas, which is only true in the loosest sense. Hard to believe Jordan is either missing that or looking the other way. That doesn't make a lot of sense, although they have a Jordanian source who says the right things, so maybe so. But the Hashemites have no incentive to be an Israeli target or to arm the Palestinians. It's WSJ, which has already been wrong on Iran. We'll see

 

Time, to a certain extent, is on Israel’s side. Every day that passes sees Hamas get hungrier, thirstier, and more beat up from air strikes. For Israel every day that passes results in more preparation … within reason. And that limitation is that Israel cannot remain fully mobilized indefinitely. At some point, those soldiers have to go back to work.

And here’s a fun fact: When I was in the Middle East in 2021, those systems (not THAAD) were already there at Mosul, Al Asad, and Jubail. Who cares to guess when they were pulled out and for what reasons (the stated and the real)?

 

I don't know why they were withdrawn but I don't think they're effective right now against the most likely current threat for the reasons stated. I'm sure they are helpful but it is something else that will need to be withdrawn and moved quickly if necessary

I don't think Hamas fighters are hungry or lacking basic supplies. They have stored long in tunnels. There is some reason really want a ceasefire and I'm not certain what it is

 

Ostensibly, we took them out to redeploy them to the Pacific, something that never happened. The real reason was Iran hinted they would be more likely re-engage in talks with us if we did. This is one of the reasons that KSA remains pissed at us to this day. Just one more reason there should be no more illusions about the Iranian regime from anyone.

You’re correct about those weapon systems not being useful (or more importantly, efficient) against drones and rockets. We have other countermeasures for those. The systems in question are the primary means for neutralizing Iran’s ballistic missile threat (short of striking them on the ground in Iran, of course).

If you’re wondering why Hamas wants a ceasefire, it’s because that’s their definition of strategic victory. They struck Israel in an unprecedented manner, forced them to mobilize, and then backed them down before they were able to complete their military objectives. That is how they “won” last time, in the arena of international opinion.

 

We have been trying to pivot to Asia for 13 years. I think we can work with Iran and I am no fan of the KSA and think they destabilize the region probably worse. I know I am in the minority but I base it on years of deep reading and analysis. I am curious about the effectiveness of our countermeasures when tested. I fear we will find out.

 

I nominate Lindsey Graham craziest human being on the planet.

 

Florida drones are being sent to Israel. I'm not sure what good it will do to have a drone that hovers over women sunbathing in their back yard and takes pictures, but there you have it. I'm not sure if they will be sent with various versions of "Florida Man" to operate the drones.

Florida drones may be headed to Israel

 

OMG that is stupid. Shortly he will be offering whatever he calls his Florida paramilitary force to patrol the Gaza border.

 

A lot of possible truth in this thread, although as the author and one commenter note, likely wrong because the demand for a more comprehensive “solution” to such an atrocity like 10/7 will likely rule out that option.

I’m not sure what it means that Bibi supposedly doesn’t “trust” the IDF. If it means that he doesn’t “trust” the IDF to deliver a clean invasion and quick toppling of Hamas with minimal casualties and civilian losses, leaving behind a stable non-threat on the border without world backlash, he is probably correct not to “trust” the IDF to deliver such a result, which is undeliverable by any force.

 

A lot of possible truth from Peter Beinart. There are a lot of differences, to be sure, but the superficial level of debate and consideration of consequences over time and international constituencies reminds of 2003’s “don’t you think the world would be a better place without Sadaam?” as an end-all debate stopper on the wisdom of that campaign.

 

Agree completely. I hope Israel avoids a full scale invasion.

 

Curious. Are these the same drones the state of FL just grounded a few months ago because they had some Chinese parts? I guess they’re good enough for Israel now…

Why is Florida grounding $200 million worth of perfectly good police drones? | Editorial

Two political grandstands with 1 set of drones. Spaced just a few months apart for those with absolutely zero attention span whatsoever. Impressive.

 

Iraq is horrible comparison. Even if we want to compare it to American folly, it would be more like Afghanistan.

There is no question Israel was attacked, and Hamas was behind it. Hamas cannot continue as an organization. Similar to the idea Al Queda could not allowed to just maintain camp in Afghanistan after 9/11.

Hamas needs to be rooted out. The only question is the optimal way to do that. Straight up urban invasion may not be the best, both in terms of civilian lives AND Israeli lives. But there is no “easy” way to point to.

 

All true. It's far from easy. I don't have any obvious good solution. Someone on Twitter last night claimed to have inside information that a deal was being worked for release of all the hostages in exchange to allow Hamas senior leadership and their families to escape to Qatar. I don't know if I believe that.

But there are no good options. And maybe a ground invasion which destabilizes and results in a regional war is the least bad option. But if that seems what is likely to occur, and it does, it's incumbent to really see if there's a way to avoid it. And that would be terrible for the United States (and Ukraine). So US leadership has to consider that reality in their advice and actions.

And you are correct about the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan in terms of the justifiability of the conflict. I was making the comparison in terms of the internal US debate, and how simplistic the argument is made that any consideration of the cost, especially massive civilian casualties, is just supporting Hamas and their murderous ways.

 

Ouch. This is bad

 

Solid behind the scenes diplomacy. Hams is beyond the pale and has no place in civilized society

 

. When he uses the words “ethnic cleansing” you can trust he is just a tool of those who expect Israel to accept slaughter and Hamas hiding behind a civilian population to survive and continue its activities. His tweet endorses the Hamas strategy. Brocade they cannot he dislodged without a war in Gaza

 

I think he is using it the way Ilan Pappe and Rashid Khalidi does. And I know he does not mean it the way you describe. Been reading him for over a decade

 

Words have meaning. He accused Israel of ethnic cleansing. Those words have meaning and it is another blood libel.