Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

This is pretty below the belt you’re normally a level headed poster, this is sad on your part.

 

Some information. Don't have telegram but seems significant

 

Oh I think it’s even more infantile than that

Israel’s success or failure is irrelevant to this. Trump cares not. Bibi has betrayed Trump by cozying up to the current U.S. President (as any Israeli prime minister will of course do by default). With Trump, this is a personal affront. Trump feels Netanyahu “owes” him total loyalty. Literally same words he used against Mike Pence after 1/6 “he let us down”.

 

Maybe calculus was the wrong word. Because the thinking was arithmetic level. Early in This thread I posted that I would not get involved in my assessment of what went in on Israel in the interest of unity. That is something to address later. Let’s leave it at that for now.

 

I'm not even sure a10s have really ever seen combat outside the Middle East. Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan, ISIS.... Crazy for a 50 year old plane. Might as well just keep them all stationed there.

 

Pretty much the same for all US weapons systems

 

“This page is titled "raid plan" on the Kibbutz of Mefalsim, and says that the contents include various maps and intelligene items on the area (not all of which are even included in the document)

For example, the document says that the battle plan outlines that the attack will consists of a commander and 2 squads of five people.

The page also suggests that this is "phase A" of the attack.”


“This page depicts an operational schedule for command and control. It includes ID numbers of commanders.

It also says that the raid on Mefalsim is "B14" and includes designations on which member is meant to "open a hole" in the fence. Another team is meant to provide "artillery."”


“In this image, it discusses the Israeli presence in Mefalsim. It says that there are "1,000 civilians" (direct translation to civilians). Of this, they claim 20 of them are a rapid response team.

It also says that there are additional Israeli forces that could arrive to the area from "nahal oz" - within 3-5 minutes. They discuss that these forcs from Nahal Oz would arrive from "Outpost 16" along road 232, in the form of "2-3" jeeps.”


“This page is the most important of the document. It lays out "tasks" of what is designated as the "basic force" (possibly an allusion to the primary force penetrating the kibbutz).
According to point #7, the force is tasked to "take prisoner soldiers, residents, and take hostages for negotiations."”

 

Fair point

 

Thanks. Very helpful

 

So they were planning this for at least a year if it’s dated 10/22. Having said that, I’m not sure if this really looks all that sophisticated. Seems like pretty straightforward intelligence that could be gathered through observation & planning.

 

Hamas militants trained for its deadly attack in plain sight and less than a mile from Israel's heavily fortified border | CNN

Now this seems a little more sophisticated. Look at these training facilities they built. They even painted a Star of David on the sides of the buildings….

How on Earth did Israel miss this? Not sure how Bibi survives this.

 

Somebody had to observe. I.e a spy or intel assistance from outside. It could have been done in a crude way (just sending individual Hamas members across the border to spy, a scary thought for residents of the area). But they could have also had outside intel help. Maybe both.

 

My understanding is that Hamas is Sunni, as are most Palestinians and the people of Gaza specifically. Is it relevant that a Shia country - Iran - backs a Sunni group (Hamas)? Do the intra-Islam debates just not matter when it comes to Israel or maybe I’ve been overestimating the extent to which the distinction matters generally?

 

No. Jews are the enemy of both. Which is why they are aligned in this. Before “me against you,” it’s “me and you against our enemy.”

 

They are always training for these attacks. The question operationally is how they got past the border fence with no one knowing it responding for so long.

 

Marvelous and effective birds IMHO, particularly when our guys have air superiority. Interested to hear what uftaipan thinks about them.

 

You’re correct that Hamas (and nearly all Gazans) are Sunni.

Historically there was an “axis of resistance” that consisted of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Syrian regime, and Iran that supported one another. All of those other than Hamas are Shia (technically Assad is Alawite, but that’s an offshoot of shiism).

As for the reasons Iran supports a Sunni militant organization? As Duchen noted, primarily because of a shared hatred of Israel. Secondarily, because Iran thinks that being the patron of a major Palestinian combatant group gives it broader credibility in the region which is useful in its smoldering rivalry with Saudi Arabia to dominate Middle Eastern politics.

 

Terrible thoughts follow, so be forewarned. So the wife and I over pizza at a restaurant tonight (and a couple Hooter Browns for me) discussed many topics but touched briefly on the topic at hand, including the killing of babies. Initial reports of dozens in one location, then reports of no confirmation, then reports of apparent confirmation. She thought of a theory that hadn’t occurred to me. What if there was a Hamas directive to specifically kill children because that eliminates an entire family tree of people; vs. killing adults which eliminates parts of but not entire family trees. Removing children eliminates another generation or two more than killing an adult. That seems to fit the directive in the Hamas statement of purpose (charter?). I don’t like typing this, but if the theory has merit it is, indeed, terrible. Was she way off base?

 

Well since their stated mission is to exterminate Jews in their sick minds the ends justify the means.