Border Wall

There is some truth in the above but the racism charges make the whole thing gobbledygook. Is Mayor Adams of NY a racist?

The tendency of people like yourself to tag anybody as racist who happens to think we should have an ordered and deliberate immigration process makes the whole discussion more toxic.

 

Would you prefer xenophobic or ethnocentric? Same thing. If these were poor white protestants from Canada with good old fashion Anglo values, I don't think the demographic replacement dread would inspire quite as much fear among the reactionaries and racists, even if economic tensions would still cause backlash. And yes black people can be racist and/or xenophobic lol - in many ways, they are often the ones competing for jobs at the bottom of the economic ladder along with imported labor. Theres a reason certain Northern Democrats made peace with slavery before the Civil War, it sucks to compete with lower cost labor that has little to no agency, which black people would be if freed to suddenly move North.

 

Not emotional. We've had a demand for immigrant labor for generations. The millions of immigrants who came in legally during the Bracero Program, the million who became legal in 1986, and millions who have come in to work and continue to do so show this demand. The fact that about 4.7% of our work force today are undocumented further shows this demand.

The loss of GDP also isn't emotional. There is evidence to back this up. Again, Georgia, along with other states, enacted draconian immigrant laws about a decade ago. The results were business losses in the hundred of millions as there was a significant labor shortage.

The inflation from labor shortages should be obvious. We experienced a world-wide labor shortage due to the pandemic, and what happened to prices? They shot up. Simple explanation. Demand stayed relatively the same, but supply of good dropped significantly. High school economics tells us when this happens, prices skyrocket. Here's more on our current immigration labor shortages and the impact on prices.

My arguments are mostly non-emotional, based on actual events that happened in the past that will absolutely be repeated if we don't learn from our actions. The emotional portion of the argument would be unnecessarily splitting families apart by deporting immigrant parents. But even that has an economic impact. The loss of a parent's income often comes with an increase to welfare roles because kids still need to eat.

 

On a less complicated note, would you contend racism/demographic dread/ethnic chauvinism (or what ever you want to call it) isn't a factor in immigration policy, both historically and contemporary?

Also I'm fairly certain everyone wants an orderly and deliberate process so that alone isnt racist of course, I just think a lot of people want that process to be deliberate in its exclusion based on certain factors, among them race/ethnicity and/or national origin.

 

Blaming everything on racism etc is intellectual laziness. Of course there are racist elements among some of the anti immigration MAGA rhetoric, but there are a lot of us who just look at it as a broken process, and realize we can’t let everybody in who wants to come here, and also the ones we do let in there needs to be a logical working process.

If you just can’t accept that people who disagree with you do so for reasons other than racism, you aren’t worth the discourse.

 

I think reading my post and saying my argument is "everything is racist" is intellectually lazy. Sorry but you can't divorce racism and ethnic squabbles from US history past or present, I've never said those things exclusively drive all events. Material factors are perhaps the primary driver, it just so happens that material factors have calcified power structures, institutions and other interests built on class, race, sex, etc.

 

agreed.

I am not sure about your first statement. There are some on here who think anybody who steps foot in the country, legally or illegally, should be given the benefit of the doubt. As to are there “a lot” of racists, xenophobes etc on the issue - yes of course, but depends on what “a lot” means.

It is possible that some racists can be right on an issue for the wrong reasons.

 

You’re not afraid huh? That’s called negligence.
That’s terrible way to take care of the Americans who are entitled to live in a safe nation.
People like you should never be able to vote. You are all for encouraging people to break the law and harm others.
Repugnant.

 

As I said, I am pro immigration. There just needs to be a logical orderly secure process. The Mexican immigration you had during the ‘00s was not orderly, but it was manageable as most came to work. This most recent bout of immigration is kind of different.

I personally don’t think we can efficiently process 3 million new immigrants a year with really no criteria whatsoever. Especially in those places where there is a robust safety net.

I have heard it said you can have immigration or a welfare state, but you can’t have both.

 

If people never broke unjust laws, we'd all be under the British empire. Negligence would be pursuing or enforcing laws that would cause families to break up, a significant loss in GDP, a spike an inflation, and citizens losing jobs, causing a spike in welfare roles.

And harm others? The total number of terrorist attacks from people who entered our southern border undocumented currently stands at ZERO! It is likely to remain at zero, because again, what terrorist cell is going to spend years in planning and use a plan where 1/3 of the members get caught trying to enter the country? Plus, again, the drug cartels that control a lot of the Mexican side of the border knows terrorism and terrorist are very bad for business.

The fear mongering is silly. Unless you think someone from a ME country is automatically a terrorist. Which if you think that way, then you should support the internment of the millions of Muslim citizens and legal immigrants already in this country. Do you?

 

This is over the top.

Personally I don’t fear immigration per se. There are security risks but I’m not sure they are greater than what we already have. But there has to be some logic and control of the system.

 

I've got to ask: why can't we take those who want in? That concept is itself a variable that is dependent on the market. If there is more demand for labor, more people will want in. When demand for labor is low, less people want in. This has been shown continuously. In fact, the relationship appears far stronger than the relationship with any enforcement regime (see, for example, the massive spike in 2019 under Trump, when we had a labor shortage and now when, again, we have a labor shortage).

For the first 150 years of this country, we let those who wanted in to come in. It wasn't due to a lack of demand (there was massive demand) or how we had more land (we still have tons of land and most of the immigrants originally went into crowded cities). Most people would say that this immigration strengthened the country over the long-term. Why is this immigration different?

Why is the market not suited to determine demand for residency?

 

Let's start with a program that allows labor to meet demand. That's what the Gang of 8 suggestion ultimately was. Is it a perfect cure-all? No. Is it better than our current status quo? Absolutely. Do this, and let's see what the outcome is. And it might not be what you expect. Many immigrants who have been here for years and have a decent savings account are returning home. We need to replace their labor. And it sure isn't coming from our citizens.

Let's let the market decide who and how many we need. If we have an abundance of supply, we can revisit. This starts with a Gang of 8 style law.

 

You don’t get to decide what is just or unjust man.

 

Of the 8 billion or so on Earth, how many people if they had a choice would come to the US? I wouldn’t be shocked it that number was in the billions. Can we assimilate a billion people.

Or maybe it is “merely” 100 million. Can we assimilate 100 million?

Why is it Mayor Adams and the New York governor were complaining to Biden? It is because they were just getting too many people too fast to assimilate.

Up to a certain point, immigration is a plus for the economy and society. After that it becomes a burden as the social infrastucture is put under stress and becomes a burden.

 

I don't know what you mean by 'benefit of the doubt,' if you mean on an asylum claim, isnt it a prejudgment to conclude some people are "faking" - and what is that judgement based on? What is the assessment that the bleeding hearts are too credulous based on? We already deport known/suspected criminals and such without processing them, so it cant be that. Most people are saying they should get their day in court, and the benefit of the doubt doesnt matter there, its based on evidence and supported claims.

 

oh, so besides demanding immigrants pick your onions, you also cut in line. That figures. Do you also kick puppies? You are a poster child of indoctrination. Here is your meme for the day.

 

what does 3 million people crossing the border per year have to do with the market?

I think it is kind of charming how a Cesar Chavez disciple is screaming for market based solutions.

 

just so I’m clear, when you use the term “undocumented aliens” what you really mean to say, are criminals, who have crossed over our border in violation of our law, correct? I’ve never heard of a criminal being referred to as “undocumented.” So we have the proper moniker, can we agree to just refer them as “criminal migrants.” That way there’s no confusion. Thanks.

 

Is it not pretty clear that most claiming asylum have been coached exactly what to say, and are actually leaving for economic reasons and not reasons that qualify for asylum?