Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Hamas Covenant [Excerpt]

"The following is excerpted from the Hamas Covenant:
Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. The Islamic Resistance Movement is but one squadron that should be supported...until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine...It is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders...

The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees."

I think your next thread should discuss why we shouldn't paint the Nazis under the broad brush of anti-semitism.

 

Previously posted this link. Rather than the Warsaw Ghetto , a more appropriate analogy for the eradication of Hamas from Gaza is the liberation of Mosul from ISIS.
Iraqi Forces Liberate Mosul From ISIS > U.S. Department of Defense > Defense Department News

 

Just a matter of time before RFK Jr is at the border making videos of Palestinians crossing over.

Sorry, I just had to attempt to add some levity to this terribly depressing situation.

 

I think he just wants to send them Hallmark Cards, and hope they’ll all then be friends.

 

Nice use of sarcasm.

 

That’s good to read, and I hope you’re right.

 

I think you completely missed the context of the reference. Resistance groups hide arms in places occupiers find objectionable, this is not particularly revelatory of anything. I dont think there is anywhere Hamas could place weapons the Israelis would say "ok, that's fine." Just the basic stupidity of the "human shields" argument. Israel has no objection to bombing civilians they have done it and will continue to do so.

 

I find it pretty objectionable that people are saying Judeo-Christian morality invites evil, particularly when people say those values are what make us great or just. Seems kind of confused!

 

I truly think you know literally nothing about what Israel thinks or doesn’t think. I know many Israelis. Not a single one of them “has no problem” bombing civilians. Their morality of human life is very Western and exactly the same as most of us in the United States.

 

I can't see who you are responding to, thankfully. But in judging Hamas as an organization, I don't care about the speech from 12 years ago. Rhetoric. All I need is to look at what happened over the weekend.

That doesn't solve the issue of proportionality in response and the risk to noncombatants. I don't for a minute think Hamas equals noncombatants in Gaza. And there's every moral duty in the world to distinguish the two to the greatest extent practicable.

I would advise not to engage idiots who have no real understanding of facts and are not serious in their moral reasoning

 

I have little doubt that Hamas has hidden caches of arms in Gaza just as ISIS almost certainly did in Mosul. If the Israeli military does attempt to reoccupy Gaza the battle will be very with significant causalities on both sides including the Palestinian civilians and Israeli captives that Hamas is using as human shields.

 

Lots of Americans oppose killing civilians too, that doesnt stop our government from doing it in their name

 

You get confused easily I suppose.
You shouldn’t go through life by abiding by a philosophy that is hard and fast.
There are gray areas and some are open to interpretation based on the situation.
You just love to hear yourself argue.

 

It’s also incredibly stupid strategy when dealing with Islamic extremists or terrorists. “An eye for an eye” doesn’t work against people who don’t value human life. It actually gives them exactly what they want. Israel could kill 50,000 civilians in retaliation for 1,000. If they don’t root out Hamas, then they will have lost. A bloodlust driven error like that would be existential level, if it cost them popular goodwill from allies and caused other neighboring states to more fully turn against them or reverse recent normalization of ties.

The mission is to root out Hamas and (likely) to establish a new civilian government in Gaza. It isn’t “revenge” or to engage in the holy war against Islamic fundamentalism.

 

It does if they no longer exist. The terrorists can't kill you if they're dead. Who cares if death is what they want. The goal is eliminating the threat.

I also know you can't negotiate with these people, and you can't leave things as they are, so what options does that leave Israel with?

 

When I went to church, they never told me "you cant abide by this hard and fast, there are gray areas" about what Jesus said. I dont expect people to be Jesus, but it is surprising that people who think we've lost our way as a civilization morally are like "that Bible stuff, you cant take it literally, people gotta pay for what they did." Perhaps I shouldnt be.

 

Terrorism isn't people, its a tactic. Cant kill an ideal or a tactic.

 

I don’t disagree with you. Proportional isn’t eye for an eye which is what I was correcting Rick on. Proportional for killing 600 civilians may be 2 years of hunting down Hamas leaders and shooting up training bases in Iran or wherever. Not sure.

 

What church did you attend?
I was raised Catholic and I can remember listening to the priest one day sometime in elementary school as a kid thinking, no chance this is all literal.
I know you don’t think so either.

 

No, but you can root out specific groups as you go. In fact, that's all you can do. What's your solution? Negotiate? Do nothing?