Border Wall

So, in conclusion, you tried to equate a border wall with the walls in East Berlin and China. I pointed out that they didn't worked. Mixed in with your patented blend of personal insults, you ended up admitting that your own examples were bad because their intended purpose was different, and then you had to switch arguments to an even more absurd comparison, trying to equate a 2,000 mile border wall with a house.

All in some sort of weird pursuit of a police state where you get to have the government shoot immigrants, who you, at one point claim are women and children, them claim you wouldn't advocate for shooting women and children.

 

You can call it whatever you like. But when it's over a million people coming into the country illegally a year, then yes, I'd call it an invasion.

 

And we've determined walls cant stop invasions, so maybe its time to rethink things

 

Electric fence?

 

from 30 years ago, US gov study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12291891/.

Also Illegal Aliens: National Net Cost Estimates Vary Widely


Older study. https://cis.org/Report/Costs-Immigration


More recent. https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/rector_testimony_913.pdf


Cost of Illegal Immigration by State [Updated May 2023]


There are dozens of competing studies. Your criticism of the FAIR study isn’t necessarily warranted. They count the children of illegal immigrants born in this country, and you and others take issue with that. Those kids should not have been born in this country and the concept of anchor babies is ripe for SCORUS review. I personally am against it.

 

Based on what? You determined that, not me or others. We have never had a proper wall. We have pieces of a wall, and we don’t have enough people/tech to monitor it.

 

I’m all for some kind of barrier.
I was giving wgb another option since he is against a wall.

 

Great job not being able to differentiate between a military invasion and an illegal immigrant invasion. It says all I need to know about you when you can't understand the difference between the 2. Quite comical to watch though. Thanks for the morning laughs.

 

Shouldn't you be saying this to the people calling it an invasion? They arent as nuanced as you are trying to win message board arguments by parsing language! They are the ones literally calling up military and national guard to deal with an 'invasion.'

 

Rector works for the Heritage Foundation. Another anti immigrant group that has to cook the books to make immigration look cost negative. Heritage has long history at looking at costs only, and ignoring benefits. It's akin to a factory owner asking what's the biggest cost in an attempt to save money. The answer is labor, so he fires his staff, and after a day of no producing, wonders why his cost saving measure didn't work!

Same thing as looking at just cost part state? What about benefits? This study from 2017 shows undocumented contributed $11.74 billion in taxes at all levels. This is just taxes. It doesn't show lost revenues, like the over 6% reduction in GDP Georgia experienced when they tried draconian measures.

And sorry, but kids born in the US are citizens. And not all are born to undocumented had at least one parent who was undocumented at the time of birth. Nearly half of all undocumented overstay a visa, be it school or work. And if the kid is born while the visa is valid, then the kid was born of two parents who were not undocumented at the time. Regardless, citizens are never undocumented.

 

pretty much everything you just said is wrong. But you do you. Your nonsense is boring me. I don’t agree with @AzCatFan but we can have a discussion because our discussions are mostly based upon data.

 

Who cares what it's called? They are getting into our country because we have no wall to stop people. Oh, it's ok to build a wall at certain areas? Come on, wonder why...

I find it funny people think a wall wouldn't help slow down the illegal immigration issue.

 

so you ask for data, I give you data, but it’s not good data because you don’t like the researchers. Uhmmmm. Ok, I will take that as a concession. I don’t believe kids born in the U.S. from people here in the U.S. should be considered U.S. citizens. Two illegals does not equal a legal. SCOTUS will address this soon enough. We shall see.

 

You literally called him a racist. Yeah, great job having a discussion based on data.

 

if someone post something racist I will always call it out. If you don’t like it, don’t post racist crap. Simple as that bro.

 

Lol! He didn't post anything racist. He stated that many industries needed workers and that immigrants are an important source of labor. You just needed to insult him and couldn't address the main point. So you called him a racist for some reason. When that is your example of how you can discuss things without personal insults, that shows how bad that argument is.

 

If right-wingers want to call capitalist logic racist, I'll allow it

 

instead of saying “we need brown people to pick onions” he said “we need black people to pick cotton”… are you still posting your nonsensical defense? Asking for a friend.


BTW, I don’t think he is racist, I think he just made a dumb statement.

 

I didn't attack the person. I attacked the logic behind how places like Heritage and FAIR come up with their numbers to show undocumented immigration as net fiscally negative. If you have to count citizens, not factor in the positive contributions, and not use standard, best accounting practices in order to get the numbers you want, then something is very wrong. These are just some of the fatal flaws in the studies you have posted. Say nothing about the people who did them.

As for birthright citizenship, it's been this way since Wong Kim Ark case in 1896. It would take something major to reverse this precedent. And it wouldn't effect people already here and citizens. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

But back to economics, it's not just net/net revenues versus expenditures we need to think about. It's also inflation. We've all recently experienced what a world-wide shortage of labor does to prices. Like the stairs in the original Ghostbusters, "they go up!" Locally, the same thing would happen if we removed 8 million workers from our workforce. In fact, in order to fight inflation, we need to import more immigrants, not expel millions. A 2014 Texas study estimated a local gallon of milk would cost $7 without the immigrants. That was nearly a decade ago before COVID. Today, that number would be closer to $8 or $9. I can still go down to my local store right now and pick out a gallon for under $3 at just about any store.

 

Tell your friend that he didn't say what you put in quote marks, meaning that you lied.

Well, then it is a bit strange to say "You’re a racist," which is a direct quote of you to him. So, again, it appears you lied at least one of those times. Which one?