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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ahhh....so spending 200 billion on Ukraine is going to save us 4-5 TRILLION in defense spending...

    Lol! Did you type that with a straight face???

    I mean, you can't possibly believe that our MIC pig is just going to be magically placated because rust bucket Russia is pushed back.. just like that--global kumbaya! No more threats, no more kids gotta go to college, the multi trillion dollar golden goose gravy train MIC pig is just gonna fold up shop, call it a day...bc we won a proxy battle east of NATO.

    That's ...not very convincing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
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  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  3. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    you do realize that much of that "spending" is giving them munitions and weapons that were scheduled to be destroyed due to obsolescence?

    would your preference be that we allow Putin to rape and pillage to his heart's content rather than support people that are trying to defend their own country from a much larger and well-equipped force while signaling to China that they can have Taiwan and not worry about us supporting Taiwan?

    you complained that Obama let Assad piss on his redline and the west did nothing when Putin took Crimea and you complain about the US trying to do something to help Ukraine defend their country. seems like you just like to complain.

    If the west would have made the Crimean adventure much more costly then Russia never would have went after Ukraine. Should we let Putin take every non-nato country and annex those countries into Russia? What would you recommend?
     
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  4. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    I don’t think you’re wrong about the MIC being a leech on our budget and a pernicious one we can’t seem to reduce the draw.

    That being said, I think the “savings” would be the costs above and beyond what we currently spend. I’m a proponent of cutting our defense spending, and that comes form someone that grew up in the military and brother is currently in it, but I think this spending is more than worthwhile.

    We don’t need to allow Russia to acquire the most valuable portion of the USSR that it lost. Ukraine is a bread basket and very good industrial manufacturer including of military equipment. And a high placed individual in the Russian military has already said that Ukraine is only a stepping stone to further conquest.
     
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  5. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Honestly, American funding to Ukraine is in great peril right now with the McCarthy ouster. I’m reading current estimates of only 2 or 3 weeks worth of funding remain before it runs dry. While I believe Biden wants to escalate, this could also turn into a convenient off ramp for him. But that would require Biden being a shrewd leader and knowing how to play a hand properly.

    Wrt to Europe and the US, this was always going to happen. That proverbial writing has been on the wall for months now. There’s simply no way for European leaders to justify dumping billions of Euros into a lost cause when their own countries are hurting. Especially a country like Poland where Ukrainian wheat exports are killing their farmers.

    I’m surprised western media hasn’t been a little more forward about how irresponsible and irrational Zelenskyy behaves on an almost daily basis. Well, I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised. But the guy acts like a cross between a spoilt rich kid and a whiny little bitch. How long did you think European leaders would take that sort of abuse before they turned off the spigots?
     
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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It happened in the 1990's. Or are you denying that the 1990's happened? If the president and Congress decides that the defense spending will be reduced, then guess what? The defense spending is reduced. The MIC doesn't get a vote. There will still be threats. And there will still be defense spending to deal with those threats. But one of the largest threats will be removed from the list, at least for a decade or two.
     
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  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    A nice article on how the Abrams tank will not be slowed down by the muddy onset of winter. In fact, the tank is made for muddy terrain, and is the best tracked vehicle for it. If Ukraine gets past Russia's defenses, then the Abrams will probably be able to be much more effective than they are now.

    Ukraine could soon be a muddy mess, but its new Abrams were made for this fight

     
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Two articles that illustrate the difference between Russian propaganda and the truth:

    1) Russian Propaganda: Russia is aiming to build a new world (that is going to be wonderful).

    Putin says Russia is aiming to 'build a new world'

    2) The Truth: The new Russian world does not look so good from this point of view.

    Russian rapists: largest number of cases in Kherson Oblast, with victims ranging in age from 4 to 83

    Russia is apparently building a new world, one rape at a time. Doesn't matter if the victim is 4 years old or 82, the principle of rape will be what the new world order is based on.
     
  10. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Your post said nothing about re-envisioning manufacturing back on our shores. Your post about my “ push for green energy” is silly. You must have me confused with someone else.
     
  11. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Not sure if this has already been posted but it's a clear indication that Russia has given up on its attempt to blockade grain exports from Ukraine considering that it has redeployed the naval assets needed to enforce the blockade.
    Putin's fleet retreats as Ukraine is winning the Battle of the Black Sea
    Russia has reportedly withdrawn most of its Black Sea Fleet from occupied Crimea in recent weeks following a series of successful Ukrainian attacks. The retreat of the Russian fleet is a serious setback for Vladimir Putin’s ongoing invasion and the latest indication that Ukraine is winning the Battle of the Black Sea.

    Satellite footage from early October indicates that Russian vessels including three Kilo-class submarines, two guided missile frigates, and a patrol ship have all been hastily withdrawn from their home port of Sevastopol in Crimea and moved to the Russian port of Novorossiysk on the eastern coast of the Black Sea, according to the Wall Street Journal. Additional Russian warships have been removed from Sevastopol and sent to other ports in the far west of Crimea or elsewhere in the Black Sea.
     
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  12. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It is possible that the S-400 destroyed in Crimea was the last one in the region to protect the base, or they just have no confidence in their ability to stop Ukraine's attacks. It is a major defeat for Russia.
     
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  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  14. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Country 404
     
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    This thread providing regular reports, on how poorly Russia is faring, as the gas station masquerading as a country dismantles America’s great proxy and turns the geopolitical world on its axis.
     
  17. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    It's still a rust bucket war machine that would get crushed in a matter of days by NATO if it came to a direct engagement. Russia and Putin know this. Russia's navy is a pathetic joke. Russia's air force would be non-existent within 48 hours of engagement. All Russia has that commands respect, is its nukes, and MAD. Otherwise all it's capable of, is shitting on much smaller countries.
     
  18. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, their invasion failed. Putin thought he’d roll right in to Kiev and all of Ukraine’s resources would be his to usurp and re-allocate within the Russian gangster state in a matter of days. Allowing him to saber rattle against NATO and the west from a much stronger position. In 5 or 10 years that may have made them a legitimate foe again, maybe not a superpower, but at least a much stronger enemy in this modern axis of evil (Iran, China, Russia).

    Nothing went as planned. Their military has been exposed, and likely set back a decade or more. Now it’s a war of attrition. But it would still be foolish to let them “have” it, as the Russians cannot win a war of attrition either. Not in terms of equipment attrition. Obviously they would hope the U.S. and Europe fracture in their support. That is exactly what their propaganda agents are (predictably) working at. Seems to me Russia’s *only* hope is a total collapse of western support. Should we give that victory to them? Hellz no. I think at the start of the war the “best case scenario” was to degrade Russia’s military, maybe have an insurgency that took a few years to stomp out. It’s clear Russia isn’t close to conquering Ukraine, so to let them have even small victories would be incredibly foolish. I get the “no blank checks” argument. But we know some actual extremists (if not outright Putin-apologists/traitors) are going to weasel in behind that argument to actually disrupt Ukraine’s defense, and their motives are something other than fiscal conservatism or “America first”.
     
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  19. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Bug Tussle NC
    Agreed. Let’s hope and plan and act to make sure this is never proved.
     
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