GOP blasting Biden for Iranian deal

We could always treat them as a normal country and not commit economic warfare against them and give them an incentive to do that just to get their own money back.

 

We have discussed this all before in earlier threads. This is something that just about all Western democracies do. Simplistic responses about incentivizing and negotiating just don't reflect what really happens

 

I think the main problem is too many of the people in the West have been conditioned to have exchange economy brain. Any 'deal' is scrutinized like paying too much a car dealership or something, even when you get what you want. Your wife is happy with the car, but you paid for that trucoat and feel like your manhood has been questioned.

 

I would try to talk family members from going to countries like Iran, Russia, China and North Korea. If they go to say NK and get imprisoned, would I expect the US to pay a kings ransom for them? No.

 

I don't think it's that people think we pay too much. I think they think it should be free. By that I mean they think that if we were sufficiently tough this would never happen in the first place. But it ignores the way of the world and the fact that that's just not remotely true as a matter of empiricism. Part of asymmetrical war is kidnapping. Happens to the Israelis and no one accuses them of not being tough enough. And they pay premium prices. People also have no idea of how any other side looks at matters, including what they consider to be our so called kidnapping and "underhanded" tactics.

I am not trying to create a moral equivalence. That is not remotely part of my worldview. But sometimes it helps to understand the history and what happens with other countries. But that defies a simplistic narrative.

 

I agree with that, but when deals do happen market brain takes over, there have to be winners and losers. People always think if the line is held, the other party will come to the table if you just show you don't really want something, like walking out of a car dealership. People always conveniently ignore that we basically stole their money to begin with (they treat it like they just grabbed some people for no reason other than being bad guys). If someone stole my money, I might get creative in retrieving it.

 

You can't make this up

 

I can still love them while also thinking they made a terrible decision. I see you can't make that distinction.

 

It is a reality that rewarding criminal behaivor will only encourage more of it. A reality seemingly lost on some. It reinforces these sham charges/kidnappings to the tune of $1.2B each at that market. This is no different than paying off kidnappers anywhere. Were it my family member, they woukd know I was kissing them goodbye when they left and reminding them of the pending consequences of their choices.

How much money is still embargoed? That is how many more that are stupid enough to go there that are at risk of being kidnapped and imprisoned. This deal only increases their odds by rewarding the behaivor, there is no doubt about that.

 

There is a lot more complexity to this

 

no doubt, but the core is the core. We just negotiated with terrorists just like we did for Griner, although it appears that Griner was much more guilty than those imprisoned in Iran. If these were truly US agents, then I am unaware of that complexity. Beyond that, it is ransom to terrorists with lipstick on it to make someone feel better about kissing it

 

No, no no. So many levels

 

kidnaped and held for ransom by a foreign government. I am not suggesting that citizens not go there, the US state department does. They have a list and everything that anybody can check of countries US citizens should not visit. Go there at your own risk.

level 4 - DO NOT VISIT. 19 countries. Of the 19, you would likely be safest in Ukraine. are those countries so hard to not vacation or do business in? let your family come visit you in a neutral, nearby location if itis a must.

Travel Advisories (state.gov)

 

Some good additional facts from the always reliable Soufan Center. A lot of the key factors are implied between the lines

 

Also two good background books

 

I wouldn't expect the US to give up $6 Billion for 5 people, whether that is the US's money or because of sanctions. You go to NK and say you are with the CIA and I'll be the first to tell Biden he needs to give NK $5 Billion for your release. Let me know when you make the arrangements.