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America Is Now A Zombie State

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by duggers_dad, Aug 9, 2023.

  1. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    Fewer freedoms maybe depending upon who you were and where you ranked in society. Definitely not for most people. Not to mention laws like the Alien and Sedition Acts.
     
  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The ‘experiment’ went off the rails early.
     
  3. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    I've said this before and didn't come up with it, but I think a fair test for "freedom" is imagining that we are going to be re-born in America but we must select the era. The condition is that we don't know what race, social status, ethnicity, gender, or orientation we might be born into. Hard for me to imagine anybody would really roll the dice and go back very far. But sure, if one could be guaranteed to be part of the aristocracy or ruling class, I'm sure a lot of people would take that.
     
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  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I can only dream of a best society. Here’s as good a juncture as any to confess that, as a Christian (perhaps not a very good one) I do not have to leave this world to also affirm that I don’t have to underwrite a nation and its system of government.

    I can live in it, obey its ordinances *advisedly* while identifying with a worldly arrangement of an otherworldly origin commonly known as the church.

    I think ‘confession’ is an apt term because I’ll admit that I’m as likely as anyone to find myself embroiled in political discussions.
     
  5. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist

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    I don’t think I can agree with this as diffuse power spread among many citizens seems to be the opposite of the definition of totalitarianism: “a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state."

    I also still wonder, if Madison’s checks and balances are simply totalitarianism, what system would you say is superior?
     
  6. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm not sure what that means practically though, especially the word "underwrite." That is starting to sound more like sovereign citizen language than monarchist! :)

    If you love God and believe that God wants us to love our neighbors, then presumably God expects us to care at least somewhat about how we are governing ourselves and treating each other while we're on this Earth. Of course, I think that can come in various forms and systems. If God wanted to dictate a specific system, the Bible could have made that very clear. I think "render unto Caesar" isn't that helpful but it at least reflects that the church and the government are distinct or at least can be distinct.
     
  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Rescinding the popular vote would be start. Essentially, almost any adult can slink behind a curtain and impose his will on his neighbor.
     
  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, a Christian is not sovereign in any sense. He is wholly beholden to his Lord.

    I think I can spit tyranny when I see it. And it is all around us today. At the same time, I should probably use the term “freedom” advisedly!

    I believe there was a certain sarcasm in Jesus’ dictum, that Caesar is about as worthy as the coin that bears his image. Nonetheless, don’t go out of your way to inflame him.

    And the apostle Paul wrote, “Insofar as it is possible, leave at peace with all men”, bearing in mind that, at certain points, Paul disobeyed Caesar.
     
  9. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    There are various subgroups, but lots of Sov Cits say they're beholden to God's laws.
     
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  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Good book Beyond Christendom by Wiilimon and Hauerwas. The premise being that the Western church is so given over to culture and politics and has forgotten that it was formed as a counter-culture and, in a sense, an alternative political system. Not to mention that it is lamentably much fractured. :(
     
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  11. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    This is the part where he comes in with how monarchy means only one person with absolute power over every individual is somehow better and less tyrannical than large numbers of people with very little individual power over anything or anyone.
     
  12. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Democracy - when an evil decision made by millions is more moral than an evil decision made by one man.
     
  13. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Do you think one unaccountable person is a better judge of morality than a whole bunch of people who are accountable to each other? Perhaps to the anti-social such as yourself, but you are never going to be that unaccountable person no matter how much you imagine yourself to be or wish to identify with them.
     
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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    It’s one person who could be held accountable vs. millions who cannot be held accountable.
     
  15. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I don't think you understand the concept of monarchy then or democracy for that matter
     
  16. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    In a way, God can be viewed as the celestial monarch/dictator, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some who find that comforting might also be comforted by the potential for relative order resulting from Earthly power being held by one person or as few persons as possible. Hitchens articulated better than I could why that tends to give me the creeps.
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    I just defined the difference.
     
  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Hitchens was hit and miss. Was he essentially saying “You’re not the boss of me!” ?
     
  19. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Yeah, I guess if you are a serf all you have to worry about is growing crops, keeping warm in winter and hoping your sons dont get conscripted as archers to get hacked down by knights. We see a lot of peasant mentality today, dont question anything, the cops are there to protect you, rich people mean well, etc.
     
  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Because we both know you’re the questioning type.