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America Is Now A Zombie State

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by duggers_dad, Aug 9, 2023.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    This drama of political decadence defies easy categorisation. Aristotle wrote that tragedy depicts people who are better, and comedy worse, than us spectators. Biden and Trump are certainly worse than those who voted them into office, but they are not remotely funny. Their antics are repellent and their goofiness unlovable. Observing them and the choral leaders that follow in their train — jerky puppets like Rudy Giuliani sweating hair-dye, or Anthony Fauci claiming to be science itself — Americans feel only shame and dread, without the cathartic release of laughter or tears.

    America is now a zombie state
     
  2. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    America, a zombie state? This meme probably says it all.
    upload_2023-8-9_11-36-15.jpeg
     
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  3. duggers_dad

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    From the article [CAPS mine] …

    Never mind that Trump is self-absorbed and impulsive to the point of criminal stupidity, that Biden is senile and evidently corrupt, and that both of these braying, boorish old men are fraudsters and fabulists. These vices do not matter to their furious followers, WHO LOVE THEIR MAN PRECISELY BECAUSE HE IS NOT THE HATED OTHER.
     
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  4. duggers_dad

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    ^ humorously, ironically, misses the whole point of the article
     
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  5. VAg8r1

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    Comparing supporters of Biden with those of Trump is the ultimate false equivalency. While it may not true on the margins, a majority of Trump's supporters worship him as if he as if he was (and in fact is) the leader of a cult as evidenced by his support among Republican primary voters. If they just wanted to an alternative to Joe Biden most of the other candidates for the Republican nomination easily fill that criterion without any of Trump's baggage. Instead of any of the more rational alternatives they prefer their Dear Leader whom they routinely worship at his MAGA rallies. On the other hand a majority of supporters of Biden while they will be voting for him because he is not Trump do realize that he is a flawed candidate.
     
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  6. mrhansduck

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    I don't think distrust in our institutions, political corruption, or partisan media are anything new. I also think there's a bit of both sides-ism going on here. That said, he makes some interesting points.

    On one hand, he talks about Americans receiving "bad education. " To the extent, I think he's arguing, at least in part, that the problem is with the voters themselves?

    On the other hand, he references Ramaswamy and RFK, Jr. as insurgent candidates that the elites are censoring to avoid shocks to the system. So to that extent, he seems to suggest that the American people are smart and wise enough to otherwise be receptive to those candidates which he thinks could revitalize national politics. Maybe they don't have more support because the elites aren't allowing it, he insinuates.

    Notably, outsider candidates with today's technology have bigger platforms than ever. His example of the censorship against Ramawamy, for example, relates to Ramaswamy's Linkedin page. Whether it's even fair to characterize that as "censorship," I don't think many Americans are choosing their preferred candidates based on whatever Linkedin is doing. I'm not sure it's really clear why he believes the parties/voters are voting for nominees/presidents like Trump and Biden when they have other options. Is it the party money? Is it the party system itself?

    One thing with Ramaswamy and RFK, Jr. is that (like Trump), they've never held elected office, they're not tested as candidates, and they don't have a political track record. Some might see those as positives for various reasons while others might not. But picking outsiders in that mold certainly wasn't a historical norm and if anything, is becoming more common in recent years.
     
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  7. duggers_dad

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    Yes, we have seen the enemy …
     
  8. mrhansduck

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    Who is the enemy though? The American people? The media? The political parties? All of the above?

    If anything, I think we're more likely these days to elect political outsiders to top political positions. I'm trying to figure out specifically which of the ailments he's talking about are recent versus which of them he is simply arguing are structural. I don't expect anybody to provide an exhaustive solution and analysis in one article of course. But I feel like there are some tensions between some of the points he's making. It would also be interesting to see a comparison between the U.S. and other nations in terms of his criticisms.
     
  9. duggers_dad

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    I tend to agree with the author that democracy inevitably leads to totalitarianism …

    Liberty or Equality: The Challenge of Our Time | Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn
     
  10. okeechobee

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    Definitely not the American people. The complicit media, yes. The political parties, to a large extent, yes. They can both be used for good, but unfortunately, most of the time, they operate within their own interests, against the people. I'll never blame the law-abiding citizens of the United States. Most of us are genuinely trying to live right with the information that we have. When media and political parties withhold information from the people, how can we blame the people? When media and political parties are dishonest with the people, how can we blame the people?
     
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  11. UFLawyer

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    blah blah blah. Orange man bad. We be good. Blah blah blah. You should submit your photo so you can be the poster child of the OP linked article.
     
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  12. duggers_dad

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    In my view the American people cannot absolve themselves of the mess they, that we, that I have helped to create.

    We empower intermediaries to execute OUR will.

    Rewind to 2020 when Americans who claimed to disdain the media together clamored for shutdowns and federal aid.
     
  13. mrhansduck

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    So (not trying to put words in your mouth), you favor some form of Aristocracy/Monarchy? How would we pick the initial leaders? And presumably, the job would pass to their descendants? Are there one or two current governments in the world that you could identify as being closest to the ideal?
     
  14. duggers_dad

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    It’s a fair question. In his companion book “Leftism Revisited” the author does propose something like a constitutional monarchy, the type of which does not exist today. He laments the passing of monarchy and poohs-poohs the axiom “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” I would add that the early Americans were markedly freer under King George. The so-called American Revolution led to far greater restraints on individual liberty and FAR higher taxes than were levied by England.
     
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  15. homer

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    Zombies have become popular. You see them on TV every day so what’s your point?
     
  16. duggers_dad

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    You weren’t actually interested in discerning the writer’s point. That would require reading the short article. Snappy remark, though.
     
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  17. homer

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    Well I finally agree with you. Not the least interested in reading it.
     
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  18. duggers_dad

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    Drive-by duly noted. The writer’s probably a Russian anti-vaxxer anyway.
     
  19. UFLawyer

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. VAg8r1

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    Love your strategy of attacking the messenger instead of the message. Not surprising since you apparently have no problem with Orange Man as the Republican nominee in 2024 especially since you appear to believe that he really won the election in 2020 and that it was stolen from him not to mention some of your previous posts in which you implied that he had no responsibility for the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol.
     
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