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California to Experience the Dark Side of Solar Power

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Jul 16, 2022.

  1. RealGatorFan

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    How much can be recycled? Actually, not much. The first article talks about a lot of things but the fact is not one solar panel can be built from all of the solar panel on the planet that are recycled in a year.

    The polysilicon in solar panels cannot be recycled at all. It takes 3 to 5 tons of polysilicon to produce 1 megawatt worth of solar panels. To make it, they take silicon dioxide and mix it with carbon, which is most often derived from coal. However, it’s possible to use wood or graphite. The mixture is dropped in a furnace at about 3,600 degrees Fahrenheit, which means it takes large amounts of constant energy to produce the heat needed for the process. For every ton of polysilicon produced, 3-4 tons of silicon tetrachloride, a highly toxic compound, also are produced. As solar panels reach the end of their useful lives, most of that polysilicon will need to be disposed of in landfills.

    “Polysilicon … can’t ever be recycled back into polysilicon. If it’s fake cycled into sand it would be absolutely toxic,” Randall said.

    What about the other minerals? Very little can be recycled.

    So the EPA article is a bad article that doesn't go into actual real world processes. Maybe in the years to come someone will come up with an efficient way to reclaim the minerals that are worth more than just tossing in a landfill or the polysilicon can be recycled. A big if.
     
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  2. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    I am for all of the above, but we don't need to kill off fossil fuels in the process of figuring out that we need them all... just in case some of them are NOT as safe as they might have been purported to be.
     
  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    This just in . . . {teletype sounds} . . . Republican support for fossil fuels results in houseflies becoming more "woke". Fossil fuel consumption results in increases in ozone near ground level, and ozone interferes with pheromone activity among houseflies. This causes an inordinate amount of homosexual activity among houseflies.

    Scientists have discovered an alarming new side effect of air pollution: ‘We had not thought about this before’

    Can we do nothing to stop the inappropriate, disgusting courtship behavior of houseflies? You do know that this could spread to higher life forms. I understand that there is a Hollywood movie coming out about this that describes the end of humanity once this spreads far enough up the food chain.
     
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  4. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Supposedly, they lose 2% efficiency per year. So they would be 40-60% efficient.
     
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Korea has a similar idea for highway medians. They will be putting solar panels in the medians of highways, and there will be bicycle lanes underneath the solar panels.

    This futuristic ‘solar highway’ for bicycles is already sparking debate and making an impact: ‘About 500 homes’
    [​IMG]


     
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  6. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    what I meant was how efficient were they new, compared to new ones 30 years newer technology?
     
  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    No idea. I'm still debating whether it's worth it to put solar panels on my current house, which seems like it was designed (many decades ago) specifically to prevent the installation of solar panels.
     
  8. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Love that. Two birds with one stone. Making it easier to bike and providing green power.

    Wouldn't work here in the US because the Magats would crash their big trucks into just to "own the libs".
     
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Six Flags amusement park in California is getting in on the action. They have solar panels above their parking lot, generating enough power to electrify the entire park. Bonus: the customers get to return to cars that were kept in the shade all day.

    Six Flags is rolling out a fantastic new tool to save parkgoers from returning to hot cars: ‘This is the future’

     
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  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Here is some info. The original solar panels, created in 1954, were 1% efficient. From 1992 to 2012, efficiency improved from 16% to 18%. Today's top solar panels are typically 25-27% efficient.

    How Solar Panel Cost & Efficiency Change Over Time | EnergySage

    Has Solar Panel Efficiency & Cost Changed Over Time? | Boston Solar

    Current solar panels use silicon cells to capture the sun's red light. There is a new material, perovskite, being added to the silicon as a coating that captures blue light, and promises to be 33% efficient.

    A ‘revolutionary’ breakthrough in solar power technology could bring cheap, clean energy to more homes: ‘It’s very exciting’

    There are some new solar systems that theoretically hit 47% efficiency, but are extremely expensive.
     
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  11. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    I bought a set of sun power panels 10 years ago, at the time they were the most efficient at about 21% efficient.
    Sole the house so not sure how they are doing now.
    I’d guess ones 20 years old were about 16-17%.
     
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  12. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    All of the above. If you live in a place that seldom has hurricanes and tornadoes then that is a great way to generate electricity. In California and out west it makes perfect sense to me to do this.
     
  13. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    Do you get a utility bill discount with them too?
     
  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Some scientists Down Under have discovered a mind-blowing process to recycle solar panels. It involves putting them in a microwave with additional heat protection.

    Scientists discover mind-blowing process to recycle old solar panels: ‘Until now it made economic sense to just dump [them]’

     
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  15. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Why would the power company give you a discount on your electricity because you have solar power? They are already being forced to pay you for electricity that you put out on the grid at the same rate they would have charged you had you been using electricity instead.
     
  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Michigan State University gets in on the act, with a $10 million solar installation above its parking lots. The solar panels provide about 6% of the university's power needs on a typical day.

    MSU made a $10 million bet on parking lot solar panels. Here's how that worked out

     
  19. RealGatorFan

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    Have to see how this plays out on a larger scale since their proof-of-concept used a common household microwave. I'm guessing there are commercial microwaves large enough to put an entire panel in it. Will keep an eye on this. Thanks!

    However, we may need to ask why placing these farms everywhere is a smart idea. The issue with solar panels are that they are fragile. That hailstorm in Nebraska in June was evidence against solar panels, in this case the destruction of 14,000 panels. It's the primary reason why I won't get them, too many times we have hail and I want to replace the standard roof shingles with a metal roof. Solar panels in areas with little to no environmental impacts are the best places to drop a farm, like a desert. But nothing in the American heartland will work because of the frequency of storms. Florida is another state that shouldn't have any due to one hurricane's impact on 10s of thousands of panels. The panels in the Nebraska disaster were sent to a landfill.

    Hail Storm Destroys Solar Farm in Nebraska

    This is an excellent article from the Institute For Energy Research that describes the Nebraska storm and fallout and how that entire area is building massive solar farms. Forget 25 years, we are talking about just a few years before these farms will need to be replaced. That specific solar farm in Nebraska had 14,000 panels. The US in the area elaborated in the article is one of the worst areas for hailstorms in the world and frequently has hail the size of baseballs. The article also discusses how pointless it is right now to recycle these panels. Maybe in 25 years we will have a better program but I'm skeptical because of the current recycling program the world has now in place for the last 40 years. We recycle just 5% of all plastic material. We can't recycle even a leftover plastic cup because it has to be completely devoid of all materials including labeling. Overall, just 35% of stuff in your recycle bin actually gets recycled - the remaining 65% is either buried in a landfill or burned.

    The idea to use microwave ovens may work on a small scale, but how about 2.5 Billion of them? We have 25 years or less to figure out a way to recycle them.
     
  20. staticgator

    staticgator GC Legend

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    Republican-led Texas is leading the nation in new solar construction, representing 25% of all new installations. What are they going to do with their spent materials at end of lifespan?