Free healthcare in UK?

The cost of medical malpractice litigation is actually responsible for a tiny fraction of the cost of medical care and even that cost would be lower if there was less medical malpractice in the first place. State medical boards tend to be reluctant to pull the licenses of incompetent physicians and even when they do incompetent doctors frequently move and resume practicing in other states.

While this is over 10 years old it's probably still accurate and may even overstate the cost today since a number of state legislatures have imposed caps on malpractice awards since the article was written.

Medical Liability Costs Estimated at $55.6 Billion Annually

 

Back in 1980 living in California I got a survey from our local US representative Ron Dellums. He was a liberal Democrat. He asked us to rank various issues in order of importance for him to deal with. Even back then I put healthcare cost as number one.

My roommate was quite surprised by that, but I said if you don’t have good health, you’ve lost a lot of life. I still feel that way today. Protecting our citizens against diseases is just as important as protecting us against terrorists.

 

For those who have studied it, can you identify a few countries which you believe have the best healthcare systems in terms of efficiency and outcomes?

 

i’ll try not to get snippy and just respond in a kind manner. I didn’t say anything about medical malpractice claims. That’s only one piece of the puzzle. OBGYNs have to carry a tail policy for 20 years after they retire due to an extension of the statute of limitations. OBGYNS are in high demand and low supply. The cost of insurance for pharmaceutical and medical equipment company’s, coupled with rampant fraudulent claims, and you have a price increase along every point in the supply chain. There are a ton of resources on this topic.

https://www.nhcaa.org/tools-insights/about-health-care-fraud/the-challenge-of-health-care-fraud/

The True cost of Fraud™ Study | LexisNexis Risk Solutions


I wrote a brief for my State’s Supreme Court 15-20 years ago where I researched the shit out of the topic of the consumer costs of fraud and insurance. I no longer have the brief otherwise I would post it. There is a study by either a federal agency or a National Manufacturing organization that gathered a bunch of data and concluded that consumers pay something like $.30 of every dollar for the costs of fraud and the increase of insurance premiums due to fraud. That’s a tax! I don’t remember the exact figure but it was shocking. There is likewise a whole body of research on the costs of medical malpractice claims (some are fraudulent) in particular jacking up the costs. People who are interested in this topic do some Google research. You will be shocked.

As a lawyer, and a former plaintiff/patient of med mal…I get it. Some of these med mal claims are very legit. I just think we need to find a balance.

 

off the top of my head. United States, Israel, Spain.

 

More questions than answers here and no consensus reached but interesting big picture discussion about comparing systems in different countries. Wish it had been a little more detailed but worth a short view for those interested.

 

Interesting list. I will have to check out Israel and Spain.

I think the U.S. has great doctors and hospitals but seems like our healthcare cost increases have been outpacing others countries based on what I’ve seen. I am really interested in figuring out how we can increase affordable access to preventive care while stabilizing costs and not sacrificing quality of care.

I’m sure there is no silver bullet. Maybe it’s not possible to do all things at once. But our hodgepodge system is just so confusing and complex that I feel like a lot of resources are spent in the bureaucracy of it that there have to be some practical answers.

 

Mother in law went to Costa Rica for major dental surgery. Surgeon and his entire staff were educated in the US, all the equipment came from the US. But she got to hang out for a week in a nice resort before the procedures, and spent two more weeks in the resort during recovery so they could check on her every few days, and even with the travel and three weeks in a nice resort, still spent less than she was quoted in the US.

 

Know a bunch of people who get all their dental work done in Rocky Point, Mexico. Cheaper than having dental insurance in many cases. Many doctors educated in US schools with the same equipment.

Lots of people also get their prescription drugs in Mexico as well. Even with insurance, some prescriptions are significantly cheaper, depending on the drug and plan.

 

Our medical system sucks because we have placed a blood sucking leach between the patient and the Dr…known as Health insurance. Health insurance company profits are more than $50 billion a year. Admin costs for the insurance company are likely at least $30-$40 billion using standard business models. A similar admin cost for health care providers dealing with insurers. So much crap in the system. It needs to be scrapped and reimagined.

 

Yep that seems fair. But I’m a little surprised you want to scrap our entire system if you think it’s one of the very best in the world, particularly since I included efficiency (and not just outcomes) as part of my question.

 

Germany and Singapore both have excellent systems.

Germany provides basic care, but those who want more can pay for it themselves or pay for private insurance on top of what the universal health insurance provides. They spend about 12% of their GDP on healthcare and get much better results than the US does with about 17% of GDP being spent on healthcare.

Singapore has the most efficient system, in large part because they have built it so that market forces can work in their healthcare system. Money comes from the government, but individuals have to make the payments themselves, and pricing is transparent, so end users are able to make economically efficient healthcare decisions without the pressures of using money they could have spent on other needs. They do this with only about 5% of their GDP being spent on healthcare.


I lived in Canada for a couple of years. My only interaction with the healthcare system was when a roommate slipped in the shower and fell through the glass door. I dropped him off at the door to the emergency room, and by the time I parked and got in the door, he was stitched up and ready to go home.

 

The Drs and facilities are the best, the process to access them suck. Scrap the suck, keep healthcare.

 

We Americans get bang for the buck. Our healthcare can bankrupt us AND kill us.

 

There isn't the appetite in the country to change our healthcare payment system. If there was you'd hear more politicians talking about it and constituents demanding it. People are averse to change.

 

People are averse to change and in the case of healthcare for the overwhelming majority of Americans it means that they are taking a position against their own self-interest by supporting the current healthcare system.

 

Yes!

This is why we need to go the HSA route with insurance being only catastrophic coverage. The insurance companies will hate this. They will not be able to work the numbers and cover procedures that everyone has to pay for.

Get the power back to the doctor and the patient.

All of this started with Medicare. That laid the groundwork work for the quasi fascist system we have. I know many here have had the fun of dealing with Medicare and the who knows how many plans you can buy. It is big fascist business (which by the way is another major reason why so many doctors are employees of large provider systems now/which is not a good thing for the doctor patient either).

 

Not uk but govt health care at it's best...

Ontario woman asked to donate husband’s organs
after he was denied transplant for being unvaccinated

Ontario woman asked to donate husband's organs after he was denied transplant for being unvaccinated - LifeSite

 

Canada vying for Worst Country status.

 

Not to be confused with eligibility for transplants in the US.
No Cash, No Heart. Transplant Centers Require Proof Of Payment.
No Cash, No Heart. Transplant Centers Need to Know You Can Pay. (Published 2018)
https://mhcc.maryland.gov/mhcc/page...20221215/Ag7_MHCC_organ_transplant_report.pdf
The uninsured give but rarely receive transplants - PNHP
By the way there is a reason why Covid vaccinations are an eligibility criteria for organ transplants. While a Covid-19 infection is very seldom fatal for otherwise healthy individuals that's not the case for organ transplant recipients who will be on a regime of drugs intended to suppress their immune systems after they receive the transplanted organ. Although it sounds cruel providing a rare organ to a recipient who may contract a potentially fatal infectious illness post-transplant is not exactly rational.