Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

    13,775
    22,541
    3,348
    Sep 27, 2007
    Bug Tussle NC


    HaHaHaHaHaHaHa
    Yep, sure. uh-huh.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,678
    2,013
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Uh huh. Who asked? Specifically. Always get suspicious when people use the passive voice.

    And did whoever also ask for Russia to leave behind its dead, its rolling stock, and its supplies? Very generous of Russia to comply with that.

    Putin seems a lot like Bender here at the 1:00 mark.

    The Breakfast Club (5/8) Movie CLIP - Andrew and Bender Fight (1985) HD - YouTube
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

    13,775
    22,541
    3,348
    Sep 27, 2007
    Bug Tussle NC
    Special Military Operation Payback Zone takes a glancing blow. After 500+ days of the invasion and occupation of a sovereign country, they’re getting a bit tired of it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    Russia allowing Ukraine to exhaust their resources and soldiers, while they run out the clock on U.S./NATO support. Ukrainians are losing a lot of men, artillery and AFVs for very little gain. If support continues to flow in for Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians don't wait until late fall/early winter for an offensive. Their T-80's and T-90's perform much better in winter conditions than anything Ukraine and Russia still has a distinct advantage on supplies. The current situation has a "Battle of Moscow" feel to it.
     
  5. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    I'm not sure why this is being heralded. The U.S. have asked Ukraine not to strike inside of Russia proper. It plays into Putin's hand and makes it much easier for him to keep the Russian people behind him. It accomplishes zero tactical strategy. I'm assuming the Ukrainians somehow believe these types of attacks will help their cause. It actually hinders their cause and makes Putin's propaganda much more appetizing with the Russian people.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    His explanation, in this case, makes some sense. If occupying Kyiv was imperative to the overall objective, the Russians wouldn't have retreated so quickly in the north, despite their initial heavy losses.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 2
  7. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,678
    2,013
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    So they would have retreated more slowly and taken greater losses?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

    13,775
    22,541
    3,348
    Sep 27, 2007
    Bug Tussle NC
    It reminds Russians there is a war going on.
     
  9. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    Whether it was in pursuit of a ceasefire or to minimize Russian losses, the Russians withdrew from the northeastern theatre quicker than they needed to. Four weeks in a battle for the national capital shows how unimportant it is to Russia.
     
  10. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    The Russians have TVs.
     
  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,307
    1,846
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Ukraine's drone operators find their Russian counterparts in the Bakhmut area and wipe them out.

    Kraken special unit’s FPV drone destroys group of Russian drone operators near Bakhmut – video

     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,678
    2,013
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Sometimes things are actually as simple as they appear: Russia was tactically defeated, it was unable to achieve its objectives, and it cut bait to avoid an even larger disaster. Your analysis shows that you have not really studied the battles that took place around Kyiv and are biting at favorable narratives that minimize the scope of Russian defeat. The defeat at Antonov Airport, for example, resulted in catastrophic losses to some of Russia’s most highly trained and professional soldiers. There’s just no spinning it. Russia’s reach exceeded its grasp, it suffered a humiliating retreat, and abandoned much of its functional equipment and — unthinkably — its dead. Those are not the characteristics of a planned withdrawal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,648
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    *sighs* the 17th reminder …

    Ukraine is fighting a PR war for a Western audience that it is entirely dependent upon for weaponry. Accordingly, he must appear to have taken land, however meaningless the maneuver from a strategic standpoint.

    Russia, on the other hand, is waging a war of attrition. You don’t have to move forward when your enemy comes to you to be killed. You can even drop back if it makes sense to preserve personnel.
     
  14. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    I'm familiar with all of that information and I fully recognize the Russian army would have taken Kyiv without the resistance Ukraine met them with. That said, if Kyiv was strategically important to the Russians end objective, they don't leave after 4 weeks of fighting. Even if it meant sacrificing greater quantities than they already had. Their objective is not to occupy all of Ukraine. It's to keep Ukraine out of NATO. Sealing off the Black Sea is about as far as they care to go and gets the job done.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,307
    1,846
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    *sighs* the 18th reminder . . .

    Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. Russia is fighting a defensive war BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. They stink at offensive wars, and Ukraine has demonstrated a large advantage in training, technology, tactics, and motivation. Ukraine is close to encircling Bakhmut and retaking it. That is a big deal. Ukraine is making progress towards cutting the Donbas region in half, which would also be a big deal. Ukraine's use of longer range weapons has forced Russia to lengthen its supply lines (as well as keeping Russian generals further away from the fighting), and it has damaged the bridge to Crimea. All Russia has going for it right now are large numbers of (mostly incompetent) troops, and large numbers of land mines and stationary defensive fortifications.

    Once Ukraine gets behind Russian lines and starts rolling up the lines, Russian troops will start surrendering rapidly. And that's how Russia will "preserve personnel".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,648
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    And to repeat, Russia doesn’t need to go offensive to de-Americanize, I mean de-Nazify Ukraine.
     
  17. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,678
    2,013
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    That is both an accurate and untruthful statement at the same time. Accurate because, yes, that’s the absolute best they could hope for now. Untruthful because it implies that was always their plan, which is of course exactly what they want us to think in order to save face about how badly their war has gone. It’s been stated here many times: we know what their war plans and operational design were. And any doubt about the intelligence disappeared the moment the war began and they started following the plan. Ukraine knew how best to react because we told them. And then Ukraine subsequently captured Russian officers who independently confirmed Russian intentions. Yes, they were trying to occupy all of Ukraine and then do the same to Moldova. This is not even worth debating. If you want to apologize for Russia, then this is not a winning subject on which to do it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,648
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    They never had a plan. They had plans.
     
  19. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    So we can expect Russia to keep fighting until they control all of Ukraine?
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  20. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,486
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    Victoria Nuland calling shots on the ground in Ukraine? Well, that explains a lot...