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  1. Hi there... Can you please quickly check to make sure your email address is up to date here? Just in case we need to reach out to you or you lose your password. Muchero thanks!

Israel - a lot going on

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by tampagtr, Jul 5, 2023.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    the scary reality is that our system of checks and balances are broken. Trump was clearly guilty in both impeachment hearings and yet the truth did not matter. When the executive branch cannot be successfully impeached, our system is just as broken as Israel's seems to be approaching. Of the many terrible things that man brought us is the partisan politics that overrules common sense and facts in evidence. maybe it had been there and he just brough it out.
     
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  2. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist

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    Im definitely worrying about it too. Especially at the state level, where most states now have governors and both houses controlled by the same party, in addition to many which have changed the face of their supreme courts. The federal level is still a bit more protected, but those protections are definitely and sadly waning.
     
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  3. mutz87

    mutz87 p=.06

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    The US is self-destructing.
     
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  4. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist

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    Reminds me of a quote from Abraham Lincoln:

    “If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.”
     
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  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    Interesting article. Thanks. Israel is facing the same issue we face: how much power should a “supreme” court have. We claim our SCOTUS is the better alternative because we have a constitution and lifetime appointments. I’d suggest that’s largely a fiction, because whether it was the Warren court or the Roberts court, it seems clear to me that personal philosophies unavoidably influence the Justices’ interpretation of our Constitution. For example, I supported the conclusion in Roe vs. Wade, but thought the reasoning tortured the Constitution. Many will disagree.

    So, I understand the prime minister’s concerns. The problem is, I don’t know a solution for Israel, just as I don’t for our SCOTUS. We just have to live with the different philosophies of the various Justices. One thing is for sure: we aren’t allowed to vote them out even when the majority of Americans don’t agree with a decision.
     
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  7. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I will just stick with these two issues. First, the Warren Court was largely composed of Justices nominated and confirmed by Presidents and Senators with broad electoral mandates. The Roberts Court, in contrast,
    has only a single justice in its conservative block nominated by a President that won the popular vote.

    The decisions between the two in terms of upholding democracy are polar opposites (Baker v. Carr / Shelby County, Rucho, Citizens United, ad nauseam).

    The Roberts Court also is far more prone to pass highly controversial decisions with very divided courts, something that happened far less with the Warren Court, as Earl Warren was very cognizant of a divided court ruling on a controversial issue (Brown famously was 9-0).


    And I know it’s popular to say Roe v. Wade was poorly reasoned, but I have never agreed. And I know who all has said it. But one thing is clear. If the Constitutional “reasoning” in Roe was weak, it is orders of magnitudes stronger than the average Roberts court decision, which are typically dishonest, illogical and unmoored
     
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  8. phatGator

    phatGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Dayton, Ohio
    I guess the reason for lifetime appointment is so that justices don’t make rulings based upon whether or not it will help their reelection. Justices might be hesitant to make a correct interpretation of the law if it would mean they would be voted out of office.

    I don’t know how it is in other states, but in Ohio we elect the supreme court justices. Their party affiliation is not listed on the ballot. However, things that come in the mail from either party do promote the justices from their side.

    You allude to an interesting situation. Should we be able to vote out justices if we don’t like their rulings? That eventually could be lead to governance by social media: voting likes and dislikes to determine law.
     
  9. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    The most popular "reform" that makes sense but will never pass is straight 18 year terms per Justice. It reduces the incentive to nominate extremely young justices, and pretty much guarantees every presidential term gets at least one nominee. And it would take the heat out the appointments process.

    That makes sense, but it will never pass.

    Edited to add - didn't realize it was a bill - Rep. Johnson Introduces Supreme Court Justice Term Limit Measure to Restore Balance, Legitimacy for SCOTUS
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2023
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  10. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    I totally agree wi
    i’m not saying they shouldn’t, but are you suggesting SCOTUS should decide cases based upon public opinion?
     
  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Not at all, but they are not supposed to be that far removed. They are appointed and confirmed by elected officials - by design, they are supposed to be tied to public opinion, just more removed than directly elected officials.

    And part of any deliberation ahs to be the public interest, which implicates acceptance. Heck, public interest is a listed requirement for injunctive relief
     
  12. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    I agree. SCOTUS isn’t like a Circuit Court judge. Its decisions in major cases set policy. It’s more than interpreting the Constitution, though that hallowed document should be deferred to at least where it confers rights. Recognizing that interpretations vary, the Justices should look to public opinion, though, as I write this, I realize it’s a slippery slope. For example, how are they to determine it? Still, these should be educated, experienced and wise men and women able to know what is in the country’s best interests. Those men were absent in the recent abortion decision.
    BTW, I thought Citizens United was also one of the worst decision ever. Surely the majority knew what it’s decision would unleash! (Perhaps they did and wanted the wealthy elite to have more influence!)
     
  13. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Not so much a matter of following opinion, but having some modesty in countervailing widely held opinions, especially if the area of the decision is not one which by design the Courts are charged with protecting unpopular rights. But these decisions typically favor the powerful.

    Highly recommend this book which I just read

     
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