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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    i don’t know. Are you connected in any way with the Bohpal chemical tragedy ? It’s in your name …
     
  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The Russians were invited by the Afghan government.
     
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  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Why don’t you take the next step and condemn Putin as a supreme poopyhead ?
     
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    As the West has less and less use for Ukraine, the war is beginning to drop off the front pages …

    MoA - Something Amiss
     
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Note quite. The Soviets were afraid that their man in Afghanistan might be getting a little too independent, and that he might consider getting assistance from the U.S. This, in turn, might cause the other 'Stan Countries to give up on communism and give democracy a try. The Brezhnev Doctrine stated that all communist countries were obligated to step in and intervene if a communist country were to have second thoughts about their choice of government or allegiance.

    Why the Soviet Union Invaded Afghanistan | HISTORY

     
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I am. I actually have two connections to Bhopal. What's your point?
     
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  7. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree with your sentiments on Iraq, but unlike the US at the time, Russia has legitimate cause for concern with NATO annexing a border country that has historically been part of the Russian empire, whereas Iraq is on the other side of the globe and was essentially zero threat to US interests. I truly believe Iraq was all about Jr. getting revenge for Saddam trying to assassinate Sr. in Kuwait.
     
  8. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    There are some things at play in Ukraine most Americans don’t understand. For example, the western 1/3rd of Ukraine was Poland up until WW2. But you don’t see Ukraine offering to give that land back, do you? Truth be told, it probably wouldn’t be that big a deal to allow the current occupied areas to remain in Russian hands. Most eastern Ukrainians and Crimeans don’t trust the central government in Kyiv. Let’s say Ukraine reclaims all lost territory. There would be major civil unrest in those regions for decades to come. It would become a lot like Iraq, the gift that just keeps on giving.
     
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The western 100% of the United States used to belong to a bunch of native American tribes, but that doesn't change who it currently belongs to (I haven't heard you offer to give your land back). Look, if the people in the western part of Ukraine wanted their land to be a part of Poland again, they could protest about it, and then it would be a valid topic of concern. Seems like they are o.k. with being a part of Ukraine.

    I don't know what percent of eastern Ukrainians and Crimeans "trust" the central government in Kiev, and neither do you. The only organization polling eastern Ukrainians and Crimeans is the Russian government/army, and they are likely polling people with a gun to their faces. They may not trust the government asking questions of them while pointing a gun at their faces. And Ukraine has improved greatly when it comes to reducing corruption in their country since the war has started. The U.S. points at someone in Ukraine who has been accepting bribes, and that person is more likely than not removed from government immediately. Try not to believe everything that the Russians tell you. They are serial liars, and they always have been.

    Also, they may be more likely to either start trusting the gov't in Kiev after Ukraine wins the war, or start thinking about emigrating to Russia, if they trust the Russian gov't more. I don't think many would trust the Russians more after what they've been doing with untrained conscripts, Suicide Squads, etc.
     
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  10. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    And CCP. Don't forget Xi.
     
  11. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    Gee. I wonder why.

    Or maybe that famine thing under Stalin was just "Western Propaganda".
     
  12. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    He's completely off his rocker now. Not even trying to sound sane anymore.
     
  13. duggers_dad

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  14. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't have any illusions about some Ukrainian total victory. When Putin took that territory in 2014, he pretty much insured what was left would go anti-Russian/Pro-West and I could definitely see this ending up like Korea, with a DMZ right around where the lines are now. Reality is NATO has already won and won a long time ago. Ukraine is a different story and they want to give it a go. I don't blame them.
     
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  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  16. duggers_dad

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    Ouch … I guess you have to be a war tourist to find out …

     
  17. okeechobee

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    I don’t blame Ukraine either. They have a right to decide their own future. That said, I’m not sure I fully agree “they want to give it a go.” They were ready to settle the lines as far back as April 2022 and NATO would not allow them to (lest they ever want to have a hope of ascending to NATO membership). Zelenskyy campaigned for president on peace with the east. This is a NATO led proxy war. It’s not a war Ukraine decided to have on its own. The Russians invaded, Ukraine was ready to settle new lines, NATO said “keep fighting.”

    While I agree Zelenskyy has a clear goal of NATO and EU admittance for Ukraine, I hope he is aware that when the Ukrainian counteroffensive falls apart, NATO is not going to allow them to settle and still obtain NATO membership with the current territorial borders as they stand today. Otherwise, NATO would have told them by now to go ahead and cut a deal. We’ve never had confidence in the success of the Ukrainian counteroffensive.

    Further and more importantly for us, the United States is creating problems for itself in Ukraine just like we did in Iraq. We will have very little to show for our efforts and all the bloodshed in Ukraine. It’s another endeavor to justify the military spend. If Ukraine gets lucky and happens to push Russia off its soil, great, we’ll give Ukraine NATO membership. But we aren’t counting on that reality actually happening is my point.
     
  18. okeechobee

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    I have unblocked @duggers_dad as of today. While I still detest propaganda from both sides, I acknowledge not all of his posts are purely state propaganda and we should foster a free flow of ideas here.

    With that said, I have a question @duggers_dad : did NATO truly agree in the beginning to drop sanctions on Russian grain exports as part of the “grain deal” that was recently cancelled by the Russian Federation? If so, do you have an official source that shows that part of the deal in writing?

    For context: Putin is claiming they only withdrew from the grain deal, because after giving NATO several extensions, NATO never stopped the grain export sanctions that were imposed on Russian grain exports and supposedly NATO agreed to end those sanctions as part of the deal.
     
  19. chemgator

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    Ukraine to get F-16's by the end of the year. It may not be a perfect solution, but it will make things interesting for a while.

    Ukraine Situation Report: U.S. Now Pushing To Deliver F-16s "As Fast As Possible"

     
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  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The Brits have been publishing sexy beach photos of their Challenger 2 tanks humiliating the Russian army in Ukraine. I do not believe that the U.S. and Germany will sit idly by while the Brits do such outrageous things. The Americans are rumored to have plans to take pictures of bikini-clad models posing on top of the Abrams tanks as it fires its main gun in Ukraine on a sultry night in Bakhmut. The Germans will be taking pictures of young people dancing on top of the Leopard tanks cruising at top speed in Donetsk on a disco-themed battlefield with explosions all around. Choreographing the tanks will be difficult to make sure they don't crash into each other as they dodge explosions.

    Warning: do not click on this link if you have any history of adverse reaction to tank porn.

    Ukrainian paratroopers publish footage of British Challenger 2 tank in action

     
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