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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Your point is not lost on me. We promised 33 Abrams tanks to Ukraine in January, they are still not there. Biden has been wishy washy on the F-16 training. If you're going to have a proxy war, go hard or go home. Can't always be chickenshit about making the other side "mad." It's as if Biden understands he's playing with fire, so he thinks if he goes about it in a very controlled, almost drip style method, he won't get burned and it might be enough to deter Putin (lol). My gut feeling tells me Biden wants to leave himself an off-ramp. You would know this better than most of us....how long would it take to adequately train Ukrainian pilots (who don't speak English) to fly the F-16's effectively? It's typically a five-year process for an USAF pilot stateside. So if we begin moving F-16's into Ukraine and training their pilots, let's be honest about it...American pilots are the ones who will end up flying those fighter jets over Ukraine. There is no useful utility in equipping Ukraine to fly F-16's five years from now.

    I suspect that's why Biden is pussyfooting on the F-16 training. He wants to get off this highway before it escalates to that level. So he delays and sends cluster munitions instead. What Biden doesn't understand is that a capitulation in Ukraine will spell doom for him here at home. He's kinda f'd. Striking a deal now is probably his best option.
     
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  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Fact-Checked: Hot

     
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  3. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    A problem with drones is reproduction capability, as Russia has been and is quite adept at destroying drones as well as jamming them. Ukraine is losing about 10k drones a week. Of course, there will be some that sneak through, but Russia can do the same to Ukrainian targets and Russia have an infinite supply of artillery shells, so while Ukraine can hit certain Russian infrastructure targets from time to time, Russia is leveling entire cities. If Ukraine doesn't fight a brute force war, they may as well work out the best truce possible and call it a day. And while I agree with your point about Russia sitting pretty on defense, at some stage, Ukraine will have to face the reality of a large-scale counteroffensive from Russia either in the Kharkiv sector or Odesa sector (looks to be Kharkiv) or perhaps both.
     
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Wars can seem interminable and then see seeming sudden collapses.
     
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  5. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    Five years? It’s not even that long for new pilots. It’s 4 months to cross-train airframes.
     
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It is my understanding that the reason for sending cluster munitions is that we are running out of other munitions to send over there. Biden did not do a good job of ramping up production of artillery shells and other munitions when he started sending our stocks over to Ukraine.
     
  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Since Russia is (or was) widely viewed as the world's second most capable army, it is a little difficult to see a path to victory as it is being destroyed.
     
  8. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    If it were that easy, they'd be doing it already. Five years may be a bit long, but it won't be 4 months either. They need time to master the avionics and NATO procedures standards before using those planes for tactical operations. It's not something that should be rushed or it will end tragically.
     
  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The reason that the U.S. has not started the process of training Ukraine on F-16's is that the F-16 is not likely to survive a fight with Russian S-300 and S-400 surface-to-air missile systems. It is too easy to track on radar and shoot down.
     
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  10. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    That and cluster are much better for taking out a position or artillery. Much more effective for killing personnel
     
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  11. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    LOL…

     
  12. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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  13. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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  14. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Podcaster showed a drone view of a Russian position hit by US cluster munitions yesterday. It looked devastating.
     
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  15. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, lots of people dying on both sides. Pretty awesome to behold, isn’t it?
     
  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    “Awesome” in the strict sense of the word, yes. “Awesome” in the sense that you mean it, only when it happens to the Russian invaders.
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The U.S. would get waxed in Ukraine. By Ukraine. Just thumbing through DeSantis’ 5-point plan to breathe life, into the military, provides clues as to how far it’s fallen …

    DeSantis lays out 5-point ‘Mission First’ plan for military during SC stop
     
  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    This post is indicative of the sort of rabid hatred that keeps the Ukrainian nationalists (nationalism is bad in the U.S., good in Ukraine) fighting against all odds. It’s sort of like, “My country be damned. My country destroyed … as long as I can kill a Russian!”
     
  19. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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