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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I understand the instinct to make the Ukraine War into another Republicans versus Democrats issue, but apparently you haven’t been getting enough of your news from Fox. Tucker Carlson was fired long ago and with him went almost all of the pro-Russian editorial. The remaining editorialists (Levine, Hannity et al) all appear to be strongly pro-Ukraine to me and in fact their main criticisms of the Administration seem to be (fairly) that we have not done enough for Ukraine and have remained two steps behind, reacting to Russian escalation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2023
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  2. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  3. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    So anyone who gets conscripted at 70 was on borrowed time anyway. Sounds like a win-win to me. They’re the worst years of your life anyway.
     
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  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Not that ours is much to brag about these days. Just got passed up by … China ? The U.S., Russia and Brazil led the world in excess deaths during The Great Time of Hysteria.

    Russia has been conducting routine conscriptions for years. Conscripts are rigorously trained and held in reserve primarily for support with the older often functioning in technical roles.

    In any case, never mind squaring off against Russia. The US couldn’t handle Ukraine without bringing back the draft. And there are those who want to bring it back.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2023
  6. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    I'm guessing that was pre Special Operation.
     
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  7. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Disturbing read. Ukrainians have difficulty with combined arms operations. If you read all the way through, they says no military other the US would likely do better. But it is not just weapons, it is coordination and the challenge of fighting a competent entrenched defense. The Russians can counter HIMARs "Sobering" is right

     
  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia forms Suicide Squads when the brigade runs out of ammo. Some platoons are being sent out on a mission with no ammunition and only one grenade. When questioned, their commander told them the grenade was to kill themselves if they felt threatened. The soldiers are also not getting paid. I imagine that the officers responded, "We only pay you when you fire your weapon at the enemy!"

    A Russian soldier said his unit was sent into battle with no ammo and one grenade each — to kill themselves

     
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  9. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Give. Them. Air. Superiority.
     
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  10. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    a few things that struck me. he fails to address the control of the skies that Russia enjoys along the line, his reports of plentiful russian munitions doesn't seem to match the stories I read elsewhere. It also seems to conflict the reports of long times at the front with no rotation when he mentions they have not used their reserves. Then he went on to note the way Ukraine now holds artillerty superiority in numbers. This was 1:8 - 10 in favor of Russia not long ago.

    if what he reports about failing to target and dismantle C & C/munitions is true, then the western intelligence is not engaged in shaping their battleplan, ie, penetrate and encircle rather than broad front line attacks. Again, I keep reading stories about C & C and munitions depots being destroyed that seem to conflict his story

    Ukraine needs mine clearing equipment and the ability to stop russia from remining from the air. F-16's might go a long way in that department.

    these two bullets seem to contradict each other. if ammunition is available why have they lost such artillery advantages? no mention of anti-battery radar combined with precision a artillery or rockets destroying lots of russian artillery.

    6.) There is limited evidence of a systematic deep battle that methodically degrades Russian C2 [command and control]/munitions. Despite rationing on the Russian side, ammunition is available and Russians appear to have fairly good battlefield ISR [information, surveillance, reconnaissance] coverage.

    Russians also had no need to deploy operational reserves yet to fend off Ukrainian attacks. There is also evidence of reduced impact of HIMARS strikes due to effective Russian countermeasures. (This is important to keep in mind regarding any potential tactical impact of delivery of ATACMs [U.S.-produced Army Tactical Missile System]).


    8.) Russian artillery rationing is real and happening. Ukraine has established fire superiority in tube artillery while Russia retains superiority in MRLSs in the South. Localized fire superiority in some calibers alone does not suffice, however, to break through Russian defenses.
     
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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Yea, it was hard to get a perfect picture, which I attributed to the fact that there are long lines and conditions may be different in different places along the North South axis. Also, I wish he had explained in greater detail the "combined arms" operation the Ukranians are supposedly unable to execute. I can guess, but I would love a but more precision, especially as applied to breaking through minefields and multi layer defenses.

    Also, I wish I understood more coherently how the F-16s would turn the tide. A while back Russian gunships were supposedly dominating the front lines. Are the F-16s to counter the gunships? Would they suppress Russian artillery? My limited understanding is that neither side could get air superiority due to air defenses, not opposing aircraft. I think of the primary function of the F-16 as short range interceptor. If that understanding is correct, how does the F-16 change that equation.
     
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    There’s only one way to “give” them that. And it isn’t by providing F-16s a year or so from now. In my opinion, the risk of a wider war is worth it, as I have stated ad naseum, but this President will not even take much less risky, much more common sense measures to defeat Russia. Imposing air superiority is quite a few steps down the road on a strategy to progressively pressure Russia into quitting the war.
     
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  13. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Very hard to believe, but if so...

    That. is. brutal.

    I just don't see it though. Give a bunch of soldiers one grenade, tell them to march to their deaths....I suspect you'll be eating a pile of those grenades, regardless of what country is issuing those orders.
     
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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Rule of thumb: everything Chem says about the Russians is true of the Ukrainians instead.

    Look, I don’t know how far exactly Russia is in crushing America’s great proxy, whether 70% or 80% done, but generally speaking, it certainly ain’t Russia that’s desperate.

    Instead, it is Ukraine that is like a gambling addict in Vegas at 2am signing over his automobile pink slip to play one last hand. In the end, there is no doubt the house will win.
     
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Can you spot the Freudian slip ? Hint: it’s in the yellow …

    upload_2023-7-20_15-45-57.jpeg
     
  16. AndyGator

    AndyGator VIP Member

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    meant for another thread?
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    MoA - Weak Propaganda Talk

    All of a sudden Ukraine has a hard-on to capture a town it had months ago dismissed as strategically unimportant.
     
  18. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  19. RealGatorFan

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    Yeah even with most of our best land equipment, barely gaining even a few blocks. Russia knows their best offense was always their defense because Ukraine has no offense. Ukraine will throw almost 70% of their firepower in gaining maybe a few miles back. It's why they have resorted to lower hanging fruit, bombing Russian infrastructure, which is a better option. Using drones to attack critical Russian sites like power stations, fuel depots, etc. probably would be a better tactic than trying to fight them with brute force.
     
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  20. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    Very insightful article. Interesting how many times he mentions in different context a key problem for Ukraine is lack of synchronized and combined operations. More so than issue of lack of military aid.
    Surprised he didn’t make more mention of lack of air support. I would think our land based attack strategies (ie Bradley’s) have air support as a key component.
    those minefields are hell. I haven’t read an article or podcast yet that didn’t mention how intense they are. Russia laid mines “on an industrial scale”. 10’s of thousands. I anticipate our military is picking up lessons-learned on that.
    good read, thx.
     
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