Abbott is trying to kill or injure illegal immigrants coming to Texas

I’ve often wondered what Mr. Hans Duck means, unless you’re of German heritage. One of the cooler handles.

 

Please note when questions of maga and bigotry come up it’s not totally out of left field.

 

Is there any evidence that the order to push them back into the water came from Abbott or a high level official? Genuinely want to know. That to me is much worse than the wire. And for the record, I DO think that would be too far.

Texas troopers allegedly told to push migrant children into the Rio Grande

"The purpose of the wire is to deter smuggling between the ports of entry and not to injure migrants,” Mr McCraw wrote back on 15 July. “The smugglers care not if the migrants are injured, but we do, and we must take all necessary measures to mitigate the risk to them including injuries from trying to cross over the concertina wire, drownings and dehydration.”

I think it's worth noting that there's no answer that feels good. You have border patrol waiting for them on the other side, it's hard to ask them to turn around. It's not an answer to take them to some other port of entry and tell them to figure it out. And it's a much worse answer than all of the aforementioned options to "push them into the water."

I don't understand why they would even bother with these instructions on a practical level. It's morally questionable, and we've already been shown a morally easier (and more effective) answer. Send them to DC and California and see how quickly elitist Democrats recognize the problem. Make NIMBY Democrats a thing of the past by putting the problem at their doorstep and in their communities.

Coming from a family of immigrants, I completely understand the desperation of trying to flee to America, especially in the case of the ones coming for political persecution reasons. However, one of the easiest ways to bankrupt a country and destroy an economy is having an open border and a vast welfare state. I would argue we'd be worse off if we tried being like the Scandinavian countries when it comes to taxes and welfare, but what really makes it completely unfeasible in the US is the open border paired with the US government's apparent incompetency in spending money effectively, among other responsibilities that come with being the largest military and economy in the world.

We need a system to let some in and keep some out, and we have a system if we choose to enforce it, but a free-for-all at the border is a ticking time bomb with the current privileges that everyone is afforded in this country. And I am strictly speaking in terms of economics without considering cultural and criminal ramifications, which are also concerns but are likely much smaller in scope.

 

Interesting reaction to a factual, historical statement.

 

I will have to say that if Abbott is the one who made the call for "pushing them back in the water," or an Abbott appointee, or something along those lines... I would be incredibly disappointed.

 

Mr. Han's is a nice Chinese restaurant in Gainesville.

Haven't been in a long time but looks like it's still there. We often went there on football weekends, and they had the best Peking Duck and plum sauce served with the Chinese pancakes. I have very fond memories of being there with the guys and drinking way more vodka than we should have. There was also a little duck pond very close, so the jokes wrote themselves.

https://www.mrhansgainesville.com/

 

Guest worker program, depending on the specifics, isn't necessarily bad policy, but it's not even close to a solution to the border crisis.

The problem is we have a lot of people wanting to come to this country for economic reasons. Many are hard-workers, many just want to take advantage of the welfare state, many are good people, many are bad people, many would be otherwise law-abiding when they get here, and many would be criminals.

So let's say we implement the guest-worker program. What happens when someone doesn't want to work or doesn't want to work in the field where work is offered? Are we going to compel them to work under threat of being kicked out if they don't? I don't think Democrats would go for that. What happens when we no longer need more labor? Do you expect people to stop coming? That's not going to happen.

You're applying neosporin and a bandaid to a guy who lost his arm. I guess it's nice to have some antibiotic, it's better than nothing, but you're barely better off.

I genuinely think that most of the economic concerns regarding immigration go away when you remove the welfare state entirely, but that's not an optimal solution. There's still labor concerns for people already here and you're leaving the poorest members of this country to the mercy of mere charity (which ideally would be enough in America, but I don't think we're ready for that yet. The culture needs to be less materialistic and more good before we get there.).

 

I do NOT believe hurting anyone is the solution, but we cannot simply let our country get invaded.... and do nothing a out it.

 

“Nicholas Wingate, a medic and trooper for the Texas Department of Public Safety, wrote an email to his superiors earlier this month detailing his concerns about a series of events he witnessed near Eagle Pass, Texas, that he said placed migrants, including children, in danger.

“a 4-year-old migrant girl was "pressed back" by soldiers from the Texas National Guard as she tried to cross a section of sharp razor wire. The child fainted, Wingate said, noting she was exhausted amid 100 degree temperatures……We decided that this was not the correct thing to do, the very real potential of exhausted people drowning," Wingate wrote. "We made contact with command again and expressed our concerns and we were given the order to tell them to go to Mexico and get into our vehicle and leave."

Wingate also recounted treating a migrant father who reported that his left leg had been lacerated when he rescued his son, who had gotten stuck in the river on a barrel fitted with wire. In another instance, a 15-year-old migrant broke his right leg”

Texas trooper alleges inhumane treatment of migrants by state officials along southern border



Don’t underestimate the support these policies have within maga.

 

You're lumping in a lot of different things together that really shouldn't be lumped in together.

Fleeing religious persecution or identity persecution is not the same as fleeing for economic reasons.

Also, many want to work, many just want to take advantage of the welfare state. It doesn't take close to a majority to burden the US financial system and economy over time. It just takes a perpetually open border with say 10% of the people coming in every day wanting to just take as much from the American taxpayer as they can. And that's without even accounting for the people who want to work, but realize they can't compete due to lack of training and education, so they end up needing extensive government assistance.

 

No one is an advocate for open borders. Honoring America's historical stance on asylum is not promoting an open border. And there is no federal support for welfare for non-qualified aliens. They must be here legally and for 10 years, for instance, to receive social security as far as I know. I am not sure what you are asking for? Is it for no one to be allowed to apply for asylum?

Special Considerations for Immigration and Residency: SSI for Non-Citizens | SOAR Works!

 

Thats why I said it is a big problem. BUT the topic of this thread is the wrong solution.

 

You show up to an emergency room, they're treating you. Who do you think foots the bill?

There's a lot of costs that aren't directly attributed to aliens on paper. All you need to do is go to Miami and talk to people. Miami's one of the biggest immigration hubs in the US if not the biggest. People who just got here take advantage of the system all the time.

 

You think people are just wanting to come here to use the emergency room?

 

If we’re talking overall economic impact to our society…

“Compelling new research finds immigrants, including those with less than a high school degree, provide enormous fiscal benefits and a significant subsidy to U.S. taxpayers.”

Immigrants Provide Huge Benefits To U.S. Taxpayers

 

When you flee a country for religious persecution, you do so because you fear for your safety, and you fear for your ability to make a living to take care of our family. If you are fleeing a country because of famine reasons, you fear for your safety and fear for your ability to make a living to take care of your family. If you are fleeing a country because of significant poverty and gang violence in your area, you fear for your safety and fear for your ability to make a living to take care of your family.

Regardless of the underlying reason, they symptoms are all exactly the same. And the cure is also exactly the same. Emigrate to a country that has more opportunity that will allow you to be relatively safe and take care of your family. There is no reason not to lump these all together.

Also, where's the evidence the majority of people come here to live off the welfare state? There are over 8 million undocumented immigrants in our work force, which at 11 million total, means they have a higher workforce labor participation rate than citizens. Even higher when you consider there are about 1 million in our grade schools.

Welfare is also unavailable for undocumented immigrants. If they have citizen children, they can receive some support. So I ask again, after early humanitarian aid, what are the number of undocumented immigrants receiving foodstamps? Unemployment? Or any other welfare payment?

I also disagree that Ds will not accept a guest worker program where if demand dries up, we also slow down supply. In 2007, Ds, along with some Rs, suggested an expanded guest worker programs. In 2009/10, there was a major recession. The number of undocumented immigrants in this country actually dropped by about 1.5 million. With no jobs to be had, many of the immigrants who had enough money to survive for a while returned home.

In 2013, post recession, Rs and Ds met again (The Gang of 8 this time), and once again, proposed an expanded guest worker program to address our immigration needs. This after a number of immigrants returned home because there was no demand for their labor.

An expanded guest worker program isn't a panacea for our immigration issues. But it's the best possible solution today, and for the forseeable future. It will make things better. And certainly better than putting up razor wire across the river and pushing humans back into the water.

 

Great story and creative name.

 

https://www.cato.org/immigration-re...te-immigrant-native-use-rates-benefit#results

Surprising findings to me as far as the comparisons between Natives and Immigrants receiving government assistance. However, Medicare and Social Security are not surprising to me and those are by far the biggest spending programs.

And I think comparisons in spending habits really don't tell the whole story here, particularly when the spending is so close in anything that is not Medicare and Social Security. For example, the difference in Medicaid is immigrants actually spend almost $100 more per capita. If you consider this to be a holistic spending issue, I think looking at this as a competition as to who typically requires more government assistance is the wrong way of looking at it. The correct way is that we have many more mouths to feed so it's a greater burden on the system as a whole UNLESS that required spending is made up by additional tax revenue from the immigrants. And although people have cited studies on this forum indicating that aliens pay taxes, even assuming that is true as a general rule, "paying taxes" does not end the conversation. The question is whether as a group, if they are typically giving more than they are taking. If they are taking more than they are giving, and that number is significant, this will lead budgeting problems over time, which will eventually come in the form of shortages of government entitlements if the problem is not addressed.

It's also worth noting, that I think CATO lumped in naturalized citizens with undocumented immigrants, which really skews the numbers. It would be really nice to just see a chart of the tax contributions of "undocumented immigrants" paired with how much government spending "undocumented immigrants" demand.

 

Yeah, that doesn't really answer the issue. There's no question that there are benefits. The question is if the benefits exceed the costs, and those are real questions.

I think a great start would be showing how much aliens contribute in federal taxes per year, and how much they take in. And that information is surprisingly difficult to find in light of how much information we apparently have. Most studies I see lump in aliens with naturalized citizens which is an incredibly skewed way of looking at it.